aiislove
2yr ago
Your haughty affectation is a defense mechanism to protect yourself from having to see the ugliness in your heart and the uncharitableness you approach the world with. I don't know if you are rich or poor but regardless you display no sense of noblesse oblige and have no class. You can delude yourself into thinking you've made peace with your hard-heartedness but at some point you will face a very human obstacle and the flimsy affectations you are relying on will crumble and you'll be left with a cold heart that offers no warmth for yourself or the situations you face.
It’s useful for me to hear from people who are genuinely appalled by my views.
Are you engaging with my views on an emotional level or are you protecting yourself by holding them at an analytical distance to try to perfect your artificially constructed worldview?
maladaptive at the level of “seeing like a state” and trying to actually build a great civilization.
Can you tell me your secret to being so above the rest of the wretched of the earth that you can operate on some theoretical transhumanist plane of great civilization in spite of your own humanity?
aiislove
2yr ago
But the other possible reaction is to say: what the fuck are you so proud of? Shouldn’t your standards be a little higher?
Have you ever been confronted with seeing true poverty in your life? This paragraph reads like pure horror to me. I have seen people who live in tents at the edge of the sea, people with massive tumors on their legs, people with horrible facial skin discolorations living in cardboard under bridges, people living more terrible lives than I can imagine and it would absolutely break my heart if I had to live near them or have them in my family. If people from poor countries find solace in patriotism, and your response is "maybe you should want more for your life," your response is gut wrenchingly immature and morally repulsive, in my opinion. I'm not trying to attack you but your comment makes me feel dread.
My heart absolutely breaks every time I see someone struggling with poverty, I feel so guilty that I have so much and they have so little. Your comment reads like someone who has so much privilege and has no perspective on how much they have to lose that their only response is to beg for more. It is the epitome of entitlement and immaturity and really reveals a lack of self respect. You believe that asking for more makes you look like you're deserving of more, but it really makes you look like you aren't happy with what you've been given and people will be hesitant to help you out when you're so ungrateful for what you have.
why should I feel “patriotic” towards it? Because I could have it worse? Because at least America is a better place to live than Senegal? Isn’t it okay for me to set my sights a bit higher than “not maximally terrible”?
You can set your sights higher but you will have such little sympathy from people who have less than you have if you show such little acknowledgment of what you do have. It is really to your detriment at the end of the day.
Sorry if this post is harsh, your posts rub me the wrong way to such a degree because I used to share so many of your rather haughty views ten years ago but have realized how maladaptive they are in the past few years and it kind of hurts my brain to see them repeated like this.
aiislove
2yr ago
Yes, I have noticed all of this and it drives me absolutely insane. I think it points to a massive lack of respect from blue tribe people toward the history and culture and people who they see as beneath them (red tribe people.) Blue tribe people in America, being or mainly associating with recent immigrants and rootless cosmopolitan types, see themselves as outsiders of older generations of Americans who live in "flyover" country. They are hostile toward the culture they live next to because they don't want to be seen as associating with them and also don't have a sense of class or respect for those people. Parts of my family have lived in the US for centuries, I have no ancestors who immigrated more recently than the late 19th century, and I generally despise people whose parents or grandparents were born abroad showing up to the US and disrespecting middle Americans. I love traveling all over the world and would never ever show up to a country and disrespect the people who live there to the degree that it's normalized in American society and I hate to see that accepted and normalized. I wish people like me would stick up for our dignity more, but it's so outside the realm of the overton window that pushing back against it either confuses blue tribe people or makes you look like a racist or some other outgroup weirdo they feel comfortable denigrating.
Also blue tribe people are rewarded and seen as being brave when they denigrate the US, because they are operating within the framework that believes the US is a problematic oppressor state and so to bash the country that is letting them be a nightmare is good, actually because it helps BIPOC people or whomever.
Sorry if this post is too boo outgroup, I could come up with a more charitable narrative of blue tribe views if I had to, but I have the feeling that the blue tribe views are already well known enough that they don't need to be explained whereas the indignity of the red tribe view deserves more elucidation.
aiislove
2yr ago
This post is on the one hand so beautifully poetic, but on the other hand fills me with so much dread. I would have loved it ten years ago, but the older I get the more disgusted I feel by it. Do you feel no shame or disrespect for the people who came before you, or yourself, to waste your own humanity in the pleasure box, and then to destroy everything we've achieved and all the potential to achieve anything else, for the sake of whatever we created to take over? It just feels like the ultimate disrespect to ourselves and each other. I watched my family suffer and die, in all their humanity, so that a bunch of kids can feel good forever? Ahhhh, thanks, I hate it...
aiislove
2yr ago
You have an interesting perspective but I wouldn't break things down into distinct categories as you have. In my experience, the needs you listed aren't unrelated at all but rather all play into each other. The sex and intimacy validate the ego. If you have sex with no ego validation (for example by having sex with a prostitute) it is extremely unsatisfying because you don't feel that your partner likes you in any way, so there is little to no ego validation. This is the same if you have a sex partner you don't feel equal to and feel they only like you for your money/status/power/something other than your intrinsic qualities or physical characteristics.
Intimacy is also a motivation only insofar as it validates the ego. It reinforces your feelings of power and worthiness to be held and admired and to offer admiration and intimacy in turn.
The whole idea of first having to change themselves to get validation and/or intimacy is somewhat logically contradictory.
In my experience it's very gratifying to be able to change yourself and have power over your own body and physicality and then be validated through sex. When I felt very badly about myself I was incapable of having good sex because I hated myself so much that anyone who liked me as I was repulsed me. After improving myself I am much easier to love. If you are so insecure that self improvement points to your weaknesses rather than as a place to improve yourself, you are working against your ability to be loved and have your ego gratified. Men are competitive and will always have insecurities so if you aren't working on yourself you're doomed to be stuck in a mode of self doubt which leads to misery.
I think men who don't appear to be driven by intimacy are insecure about their ability to show love to other people and avoid this part of relationships. It's not that they don't want to feel loved, but they have experience from not being loved in the past or are afraid of their partner rejecting the showing of love so they avoid it.
Seeking mainly validation from sexual relations is usually a bad idea in general if for no other reason than that it makes one's ego dependent on what other people think of you sexually.
Yes, men must find a source of validation from within themselves or else any amount of external validation they get is just not going to work on them. If you've known insecure people and tried to give them a genuine compliment they often reply with bitterness or as though you're attacking them when you're just trying to be nice, it's the same thing.
So the solution, it seems to me, is to try to be mainly driven by wanting sex as opposed to validation and intimacy.
Sex without ego validation is completely pointless. As a gay man I can get so much sex but if I'm not feeling loved by my partner it just feels like masturbation with the extra needless steps of looking for a partner for no reason if they don't validate my ego or provide some intimacy toward me.
I think all men want sex and intimacy as a way to boost the ego. They are not separable. I am a gay man so I don't know how straight men think but I suspect motivations are largely the same.
aiislove
2yr ago
where your products appear is pay-to-play, has been for years.
Can you expand on this? Are you referring only to paid ads/amazon AMS? Because of course that's pay to play, but if you're saying that general product listings are also "pay-to-play"..... what? How? I'm an amazon seller myself, is there a secret scheme somewhere I'm unaware of that will help my items get boosted in the algorithm that I can pay for aside from the kosher AMS route?
aiislove
2yr ago
Do you think this is a change that can be made at will?
You build self esteem by making changes in your life to become more like the person you want to be and less like the person that you dislike in yourself. For me, I lost weight and took care of my body more and paid more attention to my appearance, and honed my other skills and hobbies outside of physical traits and built an inner dialogue of self respect and over time my self esteem seriously improved. It is a combination of material changes and mental ones, all done at will to improve my life.
If you are asking if thinking about others more is a change that can be made at will, it definitely is. Tell yourself that being too concerned about your own emotions is rude and selfish and that you should think more about other people in social situations. You are making people uncomfortable by being uncomfortable with them, so do your best to make them comfortable. It is rude to make people feel bad, but the answer isn't to withdraw from social situations altogether, because we all need to interact sometimes, for our own good and the good of everyone around us. You have a responsibility not to be a drag to everyone around you, otherwise you are bringing misery to the people around you for no reason. Accept that you have power as (I assume) a grown adult and accept this as a gift that you can help or hurt the people around you by the way that you act, and then act to improve the lives of others, because their lives collectively are more important than your personal comfort. It's immature to be so selfish that you are afraid of embarrassing yourself that you withhold your kindness and friendship from others.
most of the time they seem to be "performing"
People do this because they're uncomfortable in social situations and are running on a script. You're witnessing their self doubt and if you were better at making them comfortable they would rely less on these performances.
I think the most important advice I have is: don't project your personal insecurities onto other people. Do not seem snooty or ready to put people down. If someone likes something, do not tell them you dislike it, even if you don't like it. Try to listen to what it is they like about that thing. Be compassionate that other people have different experiences to you and try to find a common ground. Go into social situations with less self doubt and selfishness and you will find them more rewarding. Spend time with people you don't see as threatening if you need practice. Talk to children or people with mental handicaps or the elderly, people you do not feel inferior to, to get practice in showing kindness and compassion toward them. Then once you get used to talking with them, remember that everyone is equal and the people you are threatened by are no better than a kid or your grandma and you, too, are worthy of the same respect as everyone else.
aiislove
2yr ago
It sounds like she's experiencing a mode of self doubt. She needs to be reassured that you're strong and capable of providing the things she wants from a man and that she's doing what she should be doing by staying with you. If you want to keep the relationship together you need to show strength and reassurance that she's making the right decision to be with you, and not play into her self doubt.
Also I don't know your wife and maybe the email would make sense in the context of her personality but I had to read it multiple times before I understood what she was trying to say. It sounds like she may be a bit codependent with you and needs to find a sense of self worth outside of her relationship with you. She was probably seeking a relationship with someone to help her feel better about herself but she went into it feeling badly about herself and it hasn't gone away even though she could distract herself with the relationship for a while. Maybe give her some space to figure out what she dislikes about herself so she can improve, and support her as you can but be realistic that she will mostly have to work through these things on her own.
aiislove
2yr ago
You need self esteem. You are worried about making mistakes socially because you beat yourself up when you make a mistake, so you are going into the situations feeling negatively about the results. People can sense your negativity, and react with uncertainty because they don't know why you're feeling hesitant or awkward, so react with hesitance and awkwardness in turn.
Think less about yourself. Think more about making the people you're around happy and comfortable, and less about how you feel.
People who are better at social skills than you are aren't smarter or better than you, they just don't beat themselves up if they make a mistake so they're more willing to put themselves out there and make mistakes. They also tend to think more about other people's emotions than their own.
aiislove
2yr ago
Convince yourself that getting out of your comfort zone will improve yourself or your life, or give you the life you want to live instead of the one you feel stuck with. Be honest with yourself about what you really want and then work to fix what's holding you back.
For example a few years ago I was very obese and pretty depressed about it. I consistently ate between 4000 and 5000 calories a day without a second thought. I was able to return to a healthy weight through diet and exercise because I believed it would improve my life. Today, a few years later, I've kept the weight off because I know that going back to my ridiculous eating habits would ruin my life again.
Also, shaming and ridiculing yourself can be useful if you don't want to feel shameful and ridiculous. I told myself that binge eating is disgusting and not done by the type of person that I want to be, so I don't do it very often anymore. In your case, if you don't want to be bookish, and want to be more action-taking, tell yourself that bookishness isn't "nice and all" but is actually bad and lame and you should do what action-taking heroes do, since you want to be like them.
aiislove
2yr ago
Thanks for your post. I have been curious about taking adderall in the past but reading your experience makes me not want to take it. I have a close friend who takes it and his behaviors are often obnoxious and selfish like the ones you described doing. I'm also prone to depression and anxiety so I'm glad to know that I should avoid it on those grounds as well.
aiislove
2yr ago
the actual innate mental capacity – largely unawakened – of any given individual.
Traveling to poor countries really drove this home for me. I was wildly impressed by the talent and drive and flexibility of people in Thailand, for example, compared to people in rich countries, despite the vastly greater resources that people in rich countries have access to. I was so impressed by the intelligence that people applied to every day jobs and felt really sad that people in America have all the resources in the world but apply so little of themselves to their everyday lives. Every day life in poor countries has to feel so much more empowering and rewarding than every day life in rich countries, where we're not as vulnerable to catastrophe on an every day basis as in poor countries.
Regarding the rest of the JRR Tolkien quote, I'm not surprised he or any other teacher liked these "dull" students: being around dumb people makes you feel smart. I'm sure it was very gratifying to him to educate dull students, rather than more educated ones who could challenge his intelligence in any way. Granted I have a very cynical and negative view of educators and education generally. (Speaking charitably, though, I do think that it's a noble thing to want to educate people and share your knowledge with others.)
aiislove
2yr ago
This is kind of a pithy observation rather than anything else and I don't have the will to write a full effortpost on it but wondered if anyone had any thoughts on a pattern I've noticed often.
In political debates, it often seems that criticism from one side levied at the other side is often a better critique of the side making the critique than the target of the attack.
For example, the left seem to be convinced that America is a hair's breadth away from being sucked into a religious authoritarianism by the right. But it seems that the right today is extremely libertarian and not particularly religious, indeed, the opposite of a religious authoritarian state. But I believe the fervor of leftism and the shutting down of free speech by the left is essentially a sort of religious authoritarianism, much more than anything I see existing on the right.
Similarly, the right tend to characterize the left as being morally failed and corrupt and generally against the traditional family structure. But in my opinion, the left are extremely consistent in their morals and it is the right who have strayed farther from their own traditional morals and proven themselves corrupt in various ways while also having their own traditional family structures degrade far more than the left has experienced. (I don't know how I can prove this except to say that anecdotally my red tribe family and communities I've been around are having far more family problems compared with the blue tribe people I have experience with.)
I see this as a sort of psychological projection, where both sides are too myopically focused on their own experiences to see that the problems they think the other side have are actually the problems they themselves are experiencing and then project it onto the opposing party.
aiislove
2yr ago
It's because luxury beliefs are also aspirational beliefs for people who want to see themselves as being in the luxury belief class.
For example, I have a friend who works in NYC. He doesn't make much money but his partner and many of his friends and family are rich. Many of them espouse anti cop beliefs so he tends to espouse these beliefs as well, even though they live in much more expensive parts of NYC than he does. He doesn't want to have to lose face by admitting that the cops protect him in his high crime neighborhood so he acts like he dislikes them, like his richer peers who are more shielded from the consequences do. That's just one mechanism for where these "magical beliefs" come from. He doesn't want to engage with the reality that he should be afraid of criminals rather than the police because it would mean engaging with the reality that he's of a lower economic status than his peers.
And why is the more practical worldview (that people respond to incentives) so looked down upon?
It's irritating and low class to admit that you have material practical concerns. We like to imagine the rich just walk around life unbothered by consequences, and that all we have to do is imitate that lifestyle and we too can live that way. To give away the fact that we have to wash laundry and be protected by cops and face consequences for our actions feels degrading to many people.
aiislove
2yr ago
social contagion as a result of peer pressure.
I think you're right. I noticed during covid that the mechanism by which this happens is never a positive one: it's never people independently standing up for their beliefs that they independently believe are positive, but rather, it is borne out of an indignation that their peers aren't being held to the same repressive standards that they're being held to.
Progressivism is a social contagion due to a crabs-in-the-bucket mechanism. It spreads because people are irritated that they can't get away with being racist or sexist or utilize their own privilege to benefit themselves and are thus driven to disempower everyone around them in the same exact way.
aiislove
2yr ago
I have seen this take many times but I have never taken the take from the other side: someone who admits openly that they just want a video game checklist for their own morality. It is so far away from anything I would ever want that it's impossible for me to imagine that real people would reach that conclusion. Do the people who want to live that way know that's what they want? Would they be turned off if they heard their views described the way you've described it?
aiislove
2yr ago
This will be sort of speaking on the meta level on @Lepidus's comments, as I don't really have a response to this specific post. I've been in East Asia for a few months now (and not my first time visiting,) and I really love the people here. So kind, smart, organized, polite, I adore the aesthetics and so many aspects of the culture here. Being on public transit where people don't talk and just follow basic rules of etiquette is about three million times nicer than any ride on the bus or train in Europe let alone America. But I'm somewhat sympathetic to Lepidus's underlying point as well, though I don't think he's particularly good at rhetoric. What I'm specifically referring to is that I find the political and social structures of East Asia to be quite restrictive. I don't want to live under a regime that is treating me like I'm East Asian. I love visiting the area for the novelty and to experience something different from the West, but the lack of individual freedom here is hard to cope with as a relatively libertarian American person. There certainly are values that Chinese hold differently from the West and it isn't a waste of time to worry about that, given the geopolitical situation.
Agree that Lepidus's tone is combative and the posts are a bit incoherent but since no one seems to be taking his side I just thought I'd try to throw a bone out to maybe spark discussion in a different direction.
aiislove
2yr ago
I thought up my username in a few seconds, it's just a pun on "ai" meaning love in Japanese, plus I like making AI generated art, not because I want to use AI to game social interactions. I'm not a transhumanist.
You can always turn the difficulty dial to whatever you want.
That's not the problem, the problem is that there will be people using the difficulty dial to begin with, and that I will have to make the decision not to turn the difficulty dial, and we'll all have to live with the effects of there being a difficulty dial...... It's just a mess and I'm ready to live in the woods without it all. Using a dial to make yourself popular is the definition of cringe in my opinion, it is so pathetic, I'd rather be unpopular than using a transhumanist means to buy friends.
aiislove
2yr ago
Humanity suffers from a massive lack of competence on every axis imaginable. We cannot now imagine how nice the post-singularity will be, but for a floor consider a world where everyone is good at everything at will, including every social skill.
Your last paragraph sounds extremely dystopian and unappealing to me. It's completely inhumane and in my mind renders the experiences of everyone who's been alive before that as hollow and makes all of the suffering they and we have been through completely needless and pointless, just for endless generations of human beings to enjoy a life free of inadequacy. The fact that another commenter says it sounds grand is so distressing to me. If things truly begin moving this direction all I can do is hope to move as far away from people living this way as possible. The biggest joys in my life are experiencing human emotions that are gratifying that I've earned: the sun on my skin at the beach that I've worked hard to visit, being able to explore distant cities and meet new people from all walks of life. I will feel no gratification in being good at social skills through some technological enhancement, even if the AI enhances my gratification of it is as well. I just want none of it. All I can do is hope that opting out will be possible.
aiislove
2yr ago
even if people in polls say they'd still "like" to be in a relationship or have sex, revealed preference suggests they often care less about it than in previous generations.
I blame this on a huge lack of self esteem which stems from increased narcissistic traits in the general population, especially among rich developed countries. I don't think less people want relationships, more people are afraid of rejection because they lack self esteem and so are less likely to put themselves in a position to get a relationship. At least that's based on my experiences.
aiislove
2yr ago
Are you saying you think the 21 year old would prefer the three 6's over the 9 and the 31 year old would prefer the 9 over the 3 6's? Or the other way around?
aiislove
2yr ago
As a gay man I would absolutely prefer three 6/10 guys than one 9/10 guy. I have been with guys who are 9/10 and it feels degrading because I know they're hotter than me and it makes me feel bad to be with them. The older I get the less I want to sleep with a super hot guy because it just makes me feel worse about myself. It's basically this meme. In theory I love guys who look super hot because I am attracted to masculinity but it's the cheap thrill subsides when we both know who's hotter. I can imagine myself as richer or smarter or better educated or better on any other metric than any hotter guy but none of these dimensions really matter to me when I'm with a man I perceive as physically hotter than me. I can only imagine that straight men ultimately go through this same process of realization- the classic Gilligan's Island trope comes to mind (younger guys go for Ginger because she's a glam bombshell, older guys go for MaryAnn because she's sweet and loving). The older I get the more I'm looking for a sweet and loving guy I can actually believe likes me, rather than a guy who others will think is hot. Having three men I can believe really like me is a million times more appealing than a guy hotter than me that makes me feel less hot than him.
aiislove
2yr ago
Yes, I was saying straight men and gay men alike are driven to madness when we're not getting laid. When I think about how much harder it is for straight men to get laid than gay men I feel surprised that straight men are able to keep it together as well as they do. I wouldn't want to jump through the hoops that you guys have to jump through to have sex and don't envy the runaround at all.
Taking this to its dramatic extreme, the older I get the less I care about the trappings of society and can't help but feel like all the niceties and luxuries of life are a sort of masculine "nesting" instinct to attract female mates. Since I don't have to lift a finger to get laid as a gay man and this is becoming more and more clear to me, the allure of luxury goods is less and less appealing- and indeed, at a certain point simply highlight my insecurity rather than enhance my masculinity itself. When it comes to attracting men as a man, you want to display security, and nothing looks less secure than some insane piece of fashion or a botox'd face or a piece of jewelry or a fugly haircut or basically anything other than the body you were born into. Women may demand these luxuries to feel safe, or as a signal that the man is flawed/able to be tamed/sensitive, but men find them as cringe markers of insecurity (which is much easier to notice in someone else than in yourself, by the way.)
It's so funny you say that because time and time again I find myself thinking that male-male relationships are universally fatally flawed (I'm a gay man) and to hear someone say the same about male-female relationships makes me question my priors regarding gay relationships. I think at the end of the day every relationship is going to require compromise and this compromise can make things seem less than ideal but it's just the best we've come up with so far.
As for the rest of your comment, I hate to sound like a broken record on these threads, but develop self esteem and learn gratitude for what you have and try to cultivate a charitable mindset that's realistic. Look at what you have that other people envy. Learn to appreciate it. When I imagine someone with something I want, and that they're miserable, it makes me hate that person. Don't be that person. Be the person who has what others want, and are grateful and happy for having it, not miserable that you don't have something slightly better.
You spiraled into self doubt when your partner was 30 minutes late because you are insecure in your ability to respond with grace and kindness toward yourself so you project it onto those around you. It is an immature and out of touch reaction so you should aim not to respond in immature and out of touch ways. When you are able to forgive yourself you can forgive those around you as well.
You wanted your relationship to fix the problems in your own mind, and when you brought someone into your life, she didn't fix them because you didn't have them worked out previously. She just highlighted your problems. Fix your inner issues on your own and then you'll be secure enough to have a woman who is fully human, as all women are, and not your imagined ideal of a woman who can fix every issue within you who doesn't exist.
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