ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
No bio...
User ID: 626
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
Yes.
Feel free to disagree with thiis categorisation (but provide arguments when you do so), but don't pretend you don't understand it, or that it's an attack on generic progressivism.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
Marxism is an analytical framework, not the conflict itself.
According to your argument Marxism doesn't exist at all, because wage exploitation by the owners of the means of production predates Marx.
Feel free to disagree with the idea, but I don't see any honest way to blame it on Peterson. We have several published writings of people calling themselves Cultural Marxists, which explain that this is what Cultural Marxism is, and predate Peterson by decades.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
Why blame him instead of the Cultural Marxists themselves?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
He wouldn't popularize their reading of Marx, if they didn't read him this way.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
Now, this may be true. Or it may not be. But - if you're reading this ... what can you conclude from it? Why can you believe it? Where is the evidence? The interlocutor is speaking to a conservative, who certainly believes conservatives are pro-"true equality, equality of opportunity" - and they are, at least at the moment - so they'll hear it, think "oh, but all the cons I know love equality", get mad, and move on. Instead - what are the names of those intellectuals, where can I read more about them, even by googling them?
I have nothing against someone asking for a source, but please, drop the school teacher act, especially if your issues with me apply the same to the person I'm responding to.
Maybe pull some excerpts from their wikipedia article?
Cultural Marxism refers to a school or offshoot of Marxism that conceives of culture as central to the legitimation of oppression, in addition to the economic factors that Karl Marx emphasized.[1] An outgrowth of Western Marxism (especially Antonio Gramsci and the Frankfurt School) and finding popularity in the 1960s as cultural studies, Cultural Marxism argues that what appear as traditional cultural phenomena intrinsic to Western society, for instance the drive for individual acquisition associated with capitalism, nationalism, the nuclear family, gender roles, race and other forms of cultural identity;[1] are historically recent developments that help to justify and maintain hierarchy. Cultural Marxists use Marxist methods (historical research, the identification of economic interest, the study of the mutually conditioning relations between parts of a social order) to try to understand the complexity of power in contemporary society and to make it possible to criticise what, cultural Marxists propose, appears natural but is in fact 'ideological'.
(...)
That'd be much more convincing - if you're arguing against someone who's lazy, you make sure they see the proof - and if they didn't know, it'll show that to them, viscerally.
I've seen a lot of these sort of conversations, it doesn't work like that. Half the time what happens is they stop responding, and when the topic comes up again in the future, the conversation just resets.
So, your original statement was that "racism = prejudice + power" is "cultural marxism" because cultural marxism is "the idea that we live in an exploitative system, where people are divided into classes, one designated the oppressor, and the other the oppressed."
Your original question was "what was specifically Marxist about class conflict" and that was the answer.
My claim was that the latter statement was extremely broad, and is held in various forms by many historical and present groups unrelated to marxism.
It's not extremely broad. There just aren't that many groups analyzing social relations through the lens of oppressor and oppressed classes. I'm pretty sure you will have a hard time finding a framework that does so, which is not descended from Marxism.
You'll notice that this doesn't directly mention 'enemy classes' at all.
In plain language, what do you think this means:
We are, in Marx's terms, "an ensemble of social relations" and we live our lives at the core of the intersection of a number of unequal social relations based on hierarchically interrelated structures which, together, define the historical specificity of the capitalist modes of production and reproduction and underlay their observable manifestations.
You already claimed that what I said is extremely broad, even though it's very easy to follow. How would you react if I quoted this instead?
Although it is worth noting they are correct about many things in some ways
Why does the concern about statements being extremely broad, and is held in various forms by many historical and present groups unrelated to marxism, vanish when you happen to agree with them?
Aside from the veneer of "lets all agree" vs "i very disagree", it's the same thing - universalism, progressivism, liberating the oppressed, etc.
False. "I have a dream" and "girl can do what boy can do" allow racism and sexism to go both ways, while "patriarchy" and "racism = prejudice + power" hold only one group can be racist and/or sexist.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
The EU’s attempt to regulate open-source AI is counterproductive.
Alternative explanation: no it's not, they know exactly what they're doing. To be fair, at first I also thought Ilforte was being a bit of a drama queen, and now I'm just surprised I had any bit of naivete left to be brutally beaten out of me.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
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A fact-checker-checker
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A Regime-meme detector
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A metaverse scrambler
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Automated chaff generator against "radicalization experts"
Just off the top of my head.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
I'll take being outgunned, over being forced to bring a knife to a gunfight.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
If you insist on diversity for diversity's sake, can you at least make it interesting and try to recruit off-compass weirdos, and various high-quality schizos?
If diversity is when more hegemonic ideology supporters, I'll jump off a cliff.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
Wait, are you claiming the cavalier usage of "groomer", came before the cavaliet usage of "Nazi" and "racist"?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
Because it makes no sense to tell people to not be surprised by something that had already happened, and which cannot be undone by not saying "groomer".
The only way making a point about a cycle of abuse would make sense, is if you waited for the next term used too cavalierly.
In my mind, the Hasidic power structure is a legitimate problem that needs to be made sense of, because if there is all this corruption at just 200k members, well, in 60 years it will be 1,600,000. They will comprise a majority of America's Jewish community in a few decades.
Corruption? My mother once told me she could never make sense of antisemitism. Every time she asked someone, who expressed an anti-Jewish sentiment, what their beef was, they'd come back with a variation on "they're too in-groupy". To which she'd say "instead of dissing them, why don't you learn from them?"
You're telling me, that not only is there a community successfully resisting the influence of the modern techno-dystopia, but that they're well-disciplined, vibrant, and growing... and you're telling me I'm supposed to be upset???
Why don't you tell me if they have a Paypal, I want to send them money.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
I'd watch that sitcom!
To call it corruption, I'd have to see the current regime as legitimate, and at this point, I can't. Maybe there's a more honorable way to escape Leviathan, I guess I do feel more sympathy for the Amish than the Hasids, but I don't feel like I'm in a position to lecture them.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
I cannot imagine Christians getting away with anything like this
Yeah, neither can I, but I don't see how that's the fault of Hasids, nor do I see what good is supposed to come out crushing their community. Their culture isn't my cup of tea, and I also have more sympathy for the Amish, but the Hasids are at least Human which is more than I can say for what the regime has in store for us.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
I didn't quote the conversation verbatim, there was an implication there that it's "positive tribalism" we're talking about. Things like "looking out for your own" rather than screwing over the outgroup.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
I don't believe that. This is clearly aimed at disrupting their community, and plenty of people are "living off the system" and they're not using it "how it was meant", can't say I often see the NYT complaining about that.
Hate the game, not the player? Also, my mom grew up in a time when expressing patriotism was still encouraged, rather than looked down upon.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
Well, we're not quite there yet.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
To continue the AI topic from the previous thread:
Can you give me an example of how AI could undermine the power of “the bureaucrats in Brussels”?
I responded to this with a lighthearted joke, but today when I was letting my mind wander, I remembered a recent story about a woman called Loab:
I discovered this woman, who I call Loab, in April. The AI reproduced her more easily than most celebrities. Her presence is persistent, and she haunts every image she touches. CW: Take a seat. This is a true horror story, and veers sharply macabre.
I'll explain negative prompt weights, in case you don't know. With these, instead of creating an image of the text prompt, the AI tries to make the image look as different from the prompt as possible. This logo was the result of the negatively weighted prompt "Brando::-1".
I wondered: is the opposite of that logo, in turn, going to be a picture of Marlon Brando? I typed "DIGITA PNTICS skyline logo::-1" as a prompt. I received these off-putting images, all of the same devastated-looking older woman with defined triangles of rosacea(?) on her cheeks.
My friend made this image of a "[...] hyper compressed glass tunnel surrounded by angels [...] in the style of Wes Anderson". I innocently combined this image with the original image of Loab in an image prompt, without text. For reasons we can't fully explain, nightmares ensued.
Thread continues, I recommend clicking for the visuals.
So it got me thinking - could you use something like this to scramble AI analyzing you / your community? Would mixing your content, with the result of negatively weighted prompts for whatever it is you normally do, generate a whole bunch of Loabs for people trying to spy on you?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
ISIS in particular are a bit extreme with their beheadings, suicide attacks, and all. I did, however, warm up to generic radical Muslims recently.
The comment source:
I remembered a recent [story about a woman called Loab](https://twitter.com/supercomposite/status/1567162288087470081):
The resulting link:
I remembered a recent story about a woman called Loab:
What sort of monster would write code to automatically replace nitter links with twitter links?
Oh god, I can't even show where the problem is, because they get replaced even in the text between the ``` marks...
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
Partisan politics? You insult me.
Yeah, because like I already said, Marxism is when you suggest we live in an exploitative system, where people are divided into classes, one designated the oppressor, and the other the oppressed.
I gave you a definition, and I gave you examples proving this is not about generic progressivism. Why do you keep claiming that it is?
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