bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
No bio...
User ID: 2693
This is an excellent reply if you take the view of religion as a social technology. But it says nothing about the epistemological and empirical claims of said religions. Yes, Catholicism had a (debatable) pro-social effect on European, but the question remains: "Is it true?". The fact that this questions is even being posed means that the materialist point of view won: materialism is the new standard against which any other claim must be measured to. The reason that it won is, in my opinion, that it just works: since the Scientific Revolution we need less and less epicycles. What we can condemn and criticize is the modern institutional Science(TM): sociology, psychology, anything gender and race, certain parts of genetics, anything slightly political. But this is a failure that is not imputable to materialism or science as a method since these "soft sciences" (a.k.a. pseudo-sciences at worst, proto-sciences at best) are more akin to theology than science: they often work backwards from acceptable result (Revelations), their claims are often metaphysical - the dualist concepts of sex/gender are basically gnostic -, they have heresies and schisms (different psychotherapeutical schools) that generally result in the same outcomes: none. The hard sciences, the materialistic ones, somehow do not have the same problem, or better, they do not have it to the same degree, the metaphysical claims are generally done at the fringe: Loop Quantum Gravity, Big Bang, Quantum Determinism and so on, and these are the branches that more divert from materialism and empiricism into mathematical metaphysical amusements.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
In my experience, being from a low IQ part of the world, they seem incapable of contemplating hypotheticals, "what ifs"... The only things that can be discussed are things experienced (even vicariously through movies). In general I noticed a certain difficulty with language: I need to speak simple sentences without subordinate clauses otherwise it's like their brains cannot handle the cognitive load.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
Well, they can contemplate hypotheticals if they already lived a certain experience, like they can answer questions like: "Would you like some tuna in your salad?" because they've already eaten tuna and already eaten salad in the past. But anything more abstract, like: "What would you do with 1 billion euro?" it's like I'm asking to interpret the fundamental metaphysical substrate of reality. The answers I receive are like: "I don't have 1 billion euro!". Ok, but can you imagine? Well, somehow they can't.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
More generally, you sound like a
typicalintelligent man who outgrew his playground and realized existence is a fucking scam, which I think is a fairly common problem (not to downplay its impact, I think many mottizens can empathize, me among them) and you've been given good suggestions downthread. Personally, being the rube I am, I just ducked right back into the playground upon reaching a similar burnout and try to derive enjoyment from simple things - alcohol, vidya, etc. It's not exactly healthy and it does ring hollow sometimes, not gonna lie, but at least I'm no longer paralyzed by the sheer emptiness of the human condition and can ruminate focus on the actual problems I have.
This is the same conclusion that I've reached. I went from: "I should be a productive member of society and study something that will bring positive value and progress to the world", to: "Astrophysics and anime are good enough for me, even if my betters thinks that I'm a man-child, who cares?"
I am a deontologist primarily because I do not think that I'm smart and prescient enought to compute the consequences of my actions: many times actions that I considered immoral brought me success [1] and viceversa, action that I considered good were rejected [2]. My personal rules are generally derived both by my experiences and by "historical" experiences, both fictional and not, by looking at my emotions and reactions at those second hand experiences. The consequences to these rules are irrelevant because, as I said, I do not think that I can predict what things will be good for me, only what have been. And even then, it is possible what was good for me will not be in the future, but at least it is more probable.
[1]During a Physics Lab I started trating everyone as crap (insulting, overworking them) because they didn't meet my expectations. While I regretted it, at the end of the semester my Lab mates thanked my for my "leadership", go figure.
[2]It has happened at least three times, that I can remember: I volunteer to help someone and they reply to me that the only reason I want to help them is because I want to brag how much more capable than them I am. Go. Figure.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
Come on. We have recently had a thread about how faith healing is totally totally totally true I swear but the existence of atoms? No sir! I haven't ever seen an atom, therefore God. The leniency that religious people receive on this site is nowhere found in every other site where you would just be called a "bigoted religious nut", end of story. On one hand I'm in favor of the freedom of expressing every opinion, on the other end I see the rhetoric used by the religious and is dangerously similar to the Woke. This site keep reminding me that the Culture War is eternal and counterculture is just a temporarily embarrassed authoritarianism.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
Let's notice that your response made about anything else would be considered antagonistic and uncharitable. The amount of tip-toeing needed when talking about religion reminds me of the same attitude needed to talk with the woke: I need to pass every thought to a language censor to avoid their little preciousness to be offended. This, plus the obvious one-sided moderation about certain topics, plus the obious one-sided moderation in favour of certain persons, plus many posts that triggered my Gell Mann amnesia, plus the fact the we see always the same posters and many good posters stopped posting a while ago, all of these just tell me that TheMotte is past the echo-chamber point of no return. It was fun until it lasted. Let's enjoy the waning.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
I don't have much a reputation on TheMotte because I don't really write much about the things that are discussed here, nevertheless I felt like commenting on the change of tone - if I can define it that way - of the discussion and subsequent reevaluation of my abilities. I started lurking in 2016 but I posted my first comment on the reddit sub in 2021 because I felt unprepared to participate, now I wonder if it is because I learned the jargon and the writing style or the discussion just became more... I don't even think the correct term superficial, it is more surreal, like we are retreating more and more into rarified sophistications that exist only online: it's not our off-line life that help us navigate the online but the online life that provides an interpretative framework for the real life. I'm sure there is some philosopher that has written about it but I do not really recall the name, maybe Debord?
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
My brother just received a 30k € interest-free loan from his rich friend for one of his job projects and he didn't even ask, the guy just wanted to help a friend in difficulty. It may seem cold and utilitarian but I must say that, anecdotally, having rich friends that actually care about you can be life changing.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
along with combating social degeneracy
It makes me smile when someone talk about Catholicism combating social degeneracy. I live in one of the most religious area of Southern Europe[1]. The amount of social deviancy, disfunction, filth (both physical and moral) observed while people keep professing their Catholic faith makes me think that when "studies prove" that religion is "actually good for you" are talking about American society. American culture is generally more optimistic and extroverted and American religious people bring this to their relationship to God. Here the Church is interwoven with scandals and organized crime. Yes, I am talking about Sicily.
[1]Many of my acquaintances are even scared to say to their parents that they are atheist and I've witnessed a 36 years old woman being scolded by her mother for not attending service while being sick.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
Thank you for your suggestions.
Watering holes with similar discussion norms: DataSecretsLox, /r/theschism (slowly dying)
Yes, I knew them and seeing the slow decay is somehow more painful that a clear cut end.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
Are there any other sites that you suggest with similar themes as here? Not necessarily forums, blogs or substacks are good, and not necessarily with the same politics, even better if it is completely different from here.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
Thank you. I really like your essay about Unfalsifiable Aesthetics: it summarizes many of my intuitions about music as a classical trained player.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
Ah, I do see that you're new here.
Really nice try, I am on SSC/TheMotte since 2016 never replying much but looking at the way you always respond to others, with a sense of superiority and condescension, never really reading what your interlocutor is saying, with a veneer of sneering, make me think that the only reason you comment is to elicit a faux-paus in the commenter so you can chuckle at those evil atheists that wanted proof of your metaphysical assertions while you keep repeating, comment after comment, that are absolutely and supremely true. It almost seems like that your first sentence:
I'm here for a discussion
it's actually false.
where people actually read each other and respond in a way that is, uh, responsive to what they have said.
I've, obviously, actually read what you posted. And I responded to your assertion that you cannot call the evil atheists deluded otherwise the mods scold you and I responded with an example of a recent thread where it didn't happen. What you actually wanted was someone that said to you: "Yes, those evil atheists are actually evil, they always say evil thing like that metaphysical assertion to be presented as reasonable need at least a speck of proof instead of an ipse dixit appeal to authority [or worse, in you case ego dixi]".
That's kind of the purpose of this place.
Yes, it seems like it is not clear to you and think that this place is your platform to have your claims asserted without opposition. In a coven of contrarian quokkas? Are you sure that it isn't you that haven't understood the purpose of this place?
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
blinded by your own rage; incapable of even reading when the topic makes you too emotional.
Now I understand. You're just here to troll. Thank you for letting me know.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
I understand and I do not have an answer. There have been times in which even my interests were not enough and I would have written the exact same words as you. These feelings are always there, underneath my conscious brain, I will probably bever be a "normal" person and if stretched, I would probably take my own life, I am just "lucky" enough that my despair is fluctuating so I can seem glimpses of hope. As for higher purpose, I gave up on that: I tried religion, meditation, therapy, becoming a workaholic... Nothing is satisfying in a fundamental way. I just concentrate on my daily action because the future fills me with horror and contempkating it it has not been a productive endeavour. I keep living as if everyday will be as banal and worthless as the this one, using my copes until they last. Try some cope, maybe you will find some solace in the scam that is existence, it is not guaranteed though.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
Doctor Foster? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Foster_(TV_series)
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
I'm at this point too. In general as soon as I read "Christian" I try to avoid commenting, because I know since my teenage years all the tiresome arguments but sometimes I just slip... and then I remember why I shouldn't.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
I agree, by abandoning reddit they finally can have their mask off moment.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
3mo ago
The majority of Italians do not live that lifestyle. They live a life of quiet desperation in the gray/black economy if poor, a financially tight lifestyle if middle class with constant fear of sliding down the social-economic ladder if middle class. Many people's vampiric grandmas and grandpas, after having stolen their young's blood future through the virtuous economic policies of our government like "baby-pensions", are now fostering the lifestyle of their endlessly children[1] nieces and nephews using the money they started collecting without working at 35.
[1]The job market (if we can call it that) is abysmal: low salaries, many companies who do not want to pay, extremely short term contracts after which we are promised we will be hired and somehow the job always fails to materialize, technophobic society with anti-entrepreneurial mindset unless we are talking about small retail, food, hospitality and tourism (which I fervently despise). This bring many young people to need the help of their parents/grandparents if they do not want to be homeless while they search a somewhat stable employment. Or they emigrate, generally to Germany.
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
4mo ago
I have a strange fascination with the supernatural having always been attracted to the Occult, the Mystic, the Otherworldly, the Numinous while not believing any of the claims.
The supernatural has been instead a great inspiration in the pursue of my more "rational" passions. I remember being in second grade, having finished Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, and wanting to study Potions. That brought me to the discovery that there was a thing called Chemistry which seemed suspiciously similar to Potions. What other "mystical" arts existed in the world? Ironically then, my passion for Magic fomented my passion for Science: if Potions are Chemistry than Transfiguration is Material Science? If Astrology is Astrophysics then Numerology is Math? The study of spells? Language learning. The study of the obscure forces of the Universe? Physics.
Ages ago while reading lesswrong I tried to get rid of these fascinations and in my opinion it made my life more miser: the "irrational" part was actually an important part of how I process the world, and seeing myself as a Mage was actually more in line with my natural proclivities (and more fun).
Even now, while still not being a believer, I cannot shake that there is something out there: in fact, the more I study the astrophysics of the early Universe the more fucked up it all seems; but that's probably the strange architecture of my brain. It is a sort of fascination similar to wanting to peek down while standing near a precipice, or even wanting to jump, wanting to scratch the surface and discover all this secret dangerous "knowledge".
bfslndr
Enjoyer of the Void
2mo ago
Well, my experience is the complete opposite. I am in constant, inescapable, attention-grabbing pain and I wish I were never born since I can remember, even when I was not in such dire circumstances. Success does not bring me joy, achievement does not bring me joy, relationships do not bring me joy. I am quite disgusted by the world and by existence at large. I have the mental faculties to endure otherwise I would have killed myself years ago, nevertheless I still do not think that it is worth it. My only consolation, as I said in the Sunday thread, are my escapists fantasies that I know one day will stop working, because their efficacy wanes and every time I get up again they become less and less appealing. Good for you for not experiencing such hopelessness, but it is not the rule, mostly because there are no rules.
7/15
I was actually expecting worse, given how much I would like to leave this place.
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