coffee_enjoyer
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User ID: 541
What can we learn about optimal cultural leadership in light of the 2013-2021 social justice period?
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Religious leaders did not adequately stand up against the mass movement. Although many conservatives see value in religious institutions as a cultural defense, mainstream Catholicism and Protestant denominations did not substantively address the social justice craze. In some cases they placated or even promoted it.
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Academics did not adequately argue against the mass movement. It is not the case, for instance, that the experts in western history, literature, or philosophy were more likely to argue against the mass movement in any substantive way. This is problematic: if learning the best of western culture does not lead to protecting said culture in any genuine sense when it matters the most, then how great is the actual utility of such learning?
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The main “public critics” of the period have little in common except that they were passionate and somewhat neurotic men. Yarvin, Peterson, Weinstein, Scott Adams(?). My memory of who was most dominant in this period is somewhat hazy, maybe someone with a better memory can correct me. There were more psychologists among critics than philosophers. You had people like Stefan Molyneux passionately criticizing the proto-movement well before its zenith. His Twitter attests to his neuroticism.
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Random people online were able to sense a threat that leading experts weren’t able to sense, and made arguments that leading academics did not make. Why?
It’s difficult to come away with clear takeaways. IMO: (1) it is beneficial to increase anonymous discussion, as this laid the groundwork for future criticism, and allowed for arguments to spread which would otherwise be banned. (2) It may be essential to increase the number of passionate and neurotic men, over men with other skills, as the major critics were more often passionate and somewhat crazy. A “passionate” temperament is occasionally inaccurate, and may result in behavior that leads institutions to weed them out — but their utility in sensing and addressing threats compensates for the occasional bout of craziness.
There is a funny review of Jordan Peterson from 2013, possibly the first time anyone commented about his personality online. It was made on the anonymous literature board of 4chan in 2013, long before his rise to fame.
he's craaaaazy. he so crazy. I had a class immediately following one of his lectures like, his was from 1:15-3:15 in Room 101., and my different classes was from 3:25-5:25 in Room 101 too. ok? So... he would totally bug out if someone opened the door early. Like, screaming fits and stuff. my prof (who was just a postdoc and wasn't going to get tenured at u of t) encouraged us all to fuck with his head because in addition to being a rageaholic spaz, peterson would also leave the podium really dirty. also, he lectures in a cape for some reason. he went on this ontario talk show with his daughter talking about how they're both clinically depressed bla bla, I feel bad that she's his dad, that must be hard to deal with
Editing for clarity
The question is geared toward users who believe that wokeness constituted a threat — to institutions, America, truth, etc. I suppose there are some users who do not believe that wokeness was a threat. I can’t recall seeing such a comment in years on this forum, but if you’re such a user, you are of course welcome to comment and critique in any way that you’d like. Feel free to comment on the premise, the points, a tangent.
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Why were the individuals leading the fight against wokeness outside of the traditional framework of understanding and designating cultural authority? The study of philosophy, the study of history, the study of great works, the study and authority of religion — these things did not create any of the influential “fighters” publicly arguing against wokeness. If they couldn’t detect, grasp, and eliminate the threat, then how important should we consider these pursuits and domains? Why did they fail when they were needed? Are these pursuits less valuable in moral formation than generally conceived? Many conservatives believe that these mainstays of Western education are important to study; yet the students of these were impotent against the threat. There are conservatives who studied these, and who teach these.
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”Institutional capture” doesn’t factor in here because there are non-woke members of these domains, perhaps a few percent or a few tens of percents, but none of them were to be found among the influential critics of wokeness.
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It appears to me that temperament played a larger role than anything else in deciding who was instrumental in tackling the threat. Do you agree? Do you disagree? From Peterson to Musk, the great “defenders” against it were passionate and somewhat crazy personalities. They cried publicly. They had strange personal lives. If that’s the case, should temperament be considered a greater deal in the selection of authority?
I think this clarifies. There’s a mismatch between “the study of Western things leads to great moral conduct!” and the reality of how everyone behaved during a mass movement which veered toward moral hysteria. “Traditional education” did not avail anything. This is interesting, provided of course that you agree with the premise.
coffee_enjoyer
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4d ago
There are reasons to “uplift the in-group” and you need to articulate why this is an innoble goal in and of itself. They are citizens; they have more in common with you if you are a wealthy white person; for evolutionary reasons, it is natural to have an interest in uplifting those that are similar to yourself; for reasons of national security, you do not want so many citizens who believe that the American project is not worth investing in; they may have a higher IQ than Hondurans; they may have different levels of compassion or a different taste in aesthetics which may be informed by genetics.
Is there any wonder high-income whites are moving away from the Republican Party
College-educated White males lean toward Trump. It’s just women who shifted a lot toward Harris.
Working-class whites, too, don't want their sons working casual labor
This may have something to do with the millions of migrants brought in to undercut wages, the exact thing we’re talking about. No, you can’t ever compete with them, because —
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Remittance payments mean that they can afford a higher quality life while temporarily living a lower quality life in America
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They are raised with values that are de-socialized by our ridiculous mandatory education culture, and this isn’t the kind of thing you can arbitrarily re-socialize at will
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They often live in illegal accommodations, requiring less funds, and these require a network that natives aren’t a part of
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They live within a culture where the women expect to marry laborers
I’m also not sure if you’re agreeing with him that it would increase wages, and just disagree that this is important, or if you think it won’t increase wages.
coffee_enjoyer
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1d ago
We don’t know all the clients of Epstein because the client list wasn’t released. You’re confusing his social circle with the client list. His social circle was filled with Wexner’s influential Jewish friends — Wexner ran the Mega Group, a consortium of Jewish billionaires who pooled their money toward Jewish / Israeli influence.
Wexner led the group with Bronfman, and it inspired several philanthropic initiatives such as the Partnership for Excellence in Jewish Education, Birthright Israel, and support for the renewal of Hillel International
Epstein’s friends and funders being the most influential group of Jews in the world, organized in secrecy to promote Jewish interests and Israel, is very strong evidence that Epstein was tied to Israeli interests. Certainly, those who flew on the Lolita Express were not all Jews: Jean Luc Brunel, a top modeling scout; Bill Clinton, whose wife of course was highly influential in politics, and who Mossad had previously soft-blackmailed with the Monica Lewinsky tapes they had wiretapped; Prince Andrew; Bill Gates. But I don’t think we know what percent of blackmail was done on the plane vs in the wiretapped properties.
not to his supposed paymasters.
The billionaire Jews who got together in secret to allocate their funds toward the influence of Jews did not employ Epstein to make money. So the paymaster, if anything, would be the abstract concept of “Jewish influence”, or “Israel influence”.
Ghislaine Maxwell isn’t Jewish by the standards of any hardcore Jewish chauvinist
Her father was an important Mossad asset, which makes her the exception. .
and unfortunately in grief over a lost life has made numerous flawed claims
She was considered reliable by the media and investigators. I think you and the lawyers of Eileen Guggenheim are the only ones saying she is unreliable. It’s convenient to pretend that she is lying here.
notoriously unreliable witness.
I can’t understand your motivations here. The testimony of Maria Farmer was published without any doubtfulness by every major news organization who wrote long pieces on Epstein. Her testimony appears in documentaries and books, without skepticism. She was the first to report Epstein for crimes and the first to go to journalists. In no stretch of the imagination is she a “notoriously unreliable witness”. She is maybe the most reliable witness we have about Epstein.
Israel’s billionaire supporters supporting Israel is a completely opposite direction of travel to Israel funding Epstein‘s activities in the United States
Why would you think that? “Recording high-profile people in kompromat” goes against Israel’s interests? If Hillary had won, they might have had blackmail on her husband!
the presence of ‘they do it for free’ groups like Mega further casts doubts on the Mossad agent theory. Consider that if Israeli intelligence wants access to the elite of American politics, Hollywood, finance and so on, they don’t and didn’t need Jeffrey Epstein to facilitate it, blackmail or not.
Kompromat is always valuable. And having the suave Epstein ingratiate themselves to influential Americans is also valuable. Consider what Mossad is known for:
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They will “appeal to Jewish racial or religious proclivities” to recruit agents. Note Maria Farmer’s testimony that the Epstein crew had racial supremacist tendencies.
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“Blackmail is also used”
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“The Israeli intelligence service depends heavily on the various Jewish communities and organizations abroad for recruiting agents and eliciting general information”
coffee_enjoyer
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3d ago
So your answer to the question of how White Americans can compete with semi-slave illegal workers is
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Go ask around a Waffle House
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Look around on Craigslist for illegal housing
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(Ignore remittance payments)
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(Ignore cultural and early life influences involving manual labor, eg that some of these Hondurans have been doing it since 12)
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(Ignore crucial cultural factors related to social wellbeing like finding a wife)
coffee_enjoyer
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2d ago
Jane Doe #200 was told (or given hints) that Epstein was Mossad, but she was dating him. This was not something casually mentioned to a victim.
Hoffenberger was told that Epstein was in “intelligence” and engaged in “blackmail”, but this is when Hoffenberger was a fellow Jew engaged in Epstein-level fraud. He went to jail and converted to Christianity and I suppose had a road to Damascus moment and told the truth:
Hoffenberg told me that Epstein had said he’d worked on several projects with Robert Maxwell, including solving Maxwell’s “debt” issues. (Maxwell died in 1991, under vey strange circumstances, apparently having fallen off his yacht, the Lady Ghislaine, in the middle of the night and it was discovered in the aftermath that he’d stolen 100s of millions of dollars from the pensions of his employees.) Epstein had also told Hoffenberg that via Maxwell and Leese he was involved in something that Hoffenberg described as “national security issues,” which he says involved “blackmail, influence trading, trading information at a level that is very serious and dangerous.”
Four separate sources told me — on the record — that Epstein’s dealings in the arms world in the 1980s had led him to work for multiple governments, including the Israelis. Some of these sources are more reliable than others. But the gist of the claims that you will be able to hear, and ultimately watch in a three-hour documentary series, is that Maxwell, who was himself a conduit between the Israelis and other governments during his life time, introduced Epstein to Israeli leaders, who then allegedly used Epstein as the equivalent of an old-fashioned Russian “sleeper,” someone who could be useful in an “influence campaign.” The sources, who range from former arms dealers to former spies — and also Hoffenberg — suggest that Epstein, who lacked any sort of moral compass, decided to go one step further and compromise influential people by recording them doing things they wouldn’t want made public.
Ari Ben Menashe, himself a former Mossad spy, recounts that he was told directly by Maxwell that Epstein was Mossad (or military intelligence): [2]
What happened was Maxwell introduced [Epstein] to us, and he wanted us to accept him as part of our group. [He said] ‘and your Israeli bosses have already approved.’
I’m not sure of anyone else that Epstein told was Mossad. In fact, this itself is telling if true. If he is hanging around a Jewish network, he’s involved in Mega even, and he’s going around telling everyone that he’s X and Y, but he selectively omits the very lie that he would naturally tell, which is that he’s Mossad…. If he’s just lying all the time, surely he would tell the victims and the gentiles that he is Mossad. Why only tell the well-connected Jews? Would he really risk lying to two Mossad agents about being Mossad (Maxwell and Menashe)? If I’m Epstein and I’m a random American guy who loves to lie, and I love my Jewish identity, I would be telling everyone that I have deals with Israel — I wouldn’t tell them every lie but this one.
But Epstein didn’t target Zionist Jews who contributed large sums of money, right? Leon Black isn’t really a big Zionist contributor, and his moderate donations to Jewish causes occur post-Epstein. Large Zionist donors do not appear to be targeted by Epstein. They were among his social network because Wexner was Epstein’s patron.
Balkany using blackmail to fund Yeshivas isn’t commonplace or mundane. Yeshivas are the heart of Jewish identity and an essential way that Orthodox Jews buffer against the prospect of assimilation. Chabad was very upset when Sweden forbid homeschooling, because in the absence of indoctrination the kids will have a less extreme Jewish identity. This falls under “blackmail for increased jewish power”, not “blackmail for personal gain” (his salary is not a proportion of the total yeshiva endowment).
coffee_enjoyer
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2d ago
That’s not correcting the record. Acosta, a career politician in office, is going to tell one thing to a confidant and another thing to the OPE.
coffee_enjoyer
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2d ago
Maria Farmer was a graduate art student who was pressured to sell her work to Epstein at a discount by her school's dean, Eileen Guggenheim. Giuffre was a spa attendant at the Mar-a-Lago. Jennifer Araoz was recruited outside of her high school.
coffee_enjoyer
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4d ago
I think uplifting the in-group by getting them jobs sewing bras, picking fruit, hauling equipment, and digging ditches in the rain is pathetic.
Why? It works incredibly well for China, who has seen consistent gains in QoL. It worked well throughout the history of the West. Sewing bras is more conducive to wellbeing than stacking them on a shelf. Picking fruit is so Edenic that it’s the first recorded activity of humanity. In what world would “picking fruit” be pathetic? I think you are having trouble dissociating the image you have of these things now, with what they would look like if employers didn’t have a semi-slave class. There’s a farm near me where people — college-educated, white, smart — sign up to plant and reap for free. Because in return they get free room and board, and most importantly a social environment filled with other young white people. They work quite hard, then they drink in the evenings and dance and fuck and make music and so on. This is exactly what agricultural work was for nearly all of history. Not for the slaves, of course, but for the non-enslaved.
I'm not concerned that these Guatemalans coming across the border are going to out-compete whites because they have a "better" culture.
Well you ignored all of my points regarding this. If I also ignored all of the points I would agree with you.
coffee_enjoyer
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1d ago
Rabbi Balkany, the leading lobbyist for Haredi Jewry in DC, married into one of most important Haredi dynasties, did not blackmail billionaire Steve Cohen in order to reap a meager 180k salary from his school. However, as you note, this is my fault, for not providing the abundant evidence necessary to persuade an unfamiliar and perhaps somewhat naive reader who cannot make the natural extrapolation that a highly influential DC fixer for decades is not blackmailing Steve fucking Cohen just to receive a tiny salary from his Jewish day school.
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His salary was 180k, while his revenue stream from his small business Rite Care was 450k
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One of the two requested subjects of donation was a different Haredi school that he was not involved in, which he had no way of financially benefitting from
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He was involved in “expediting” Jewish school funding through DC connections as early as 1987
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“In 1994, Milton Balkany, a conservative Republican active in political fundraising,[22] tried to have Luchins excommunicated by a Jewish religious court,[13] blaming him for having "caused yeshivas in the land of Israel to lose money",[23] after Luchins had complained about Balkany's efforts to compel Israeli government officials to use U.S. aid money for projects Balkany favored in Israel.[24]”. This is not someone who is in it for greed! He is more like the sacrificing commander of a foreign army. He is in it for his tribe, giving them money and funds. Trying to have another Jew excommunicated because he didn’t want American aid going for Yeshiva funding. This is a very loyal lieutenant of the Jewish cause.
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He helped Jewish funding as far away as Russia
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He worked to ensure orthodox Jews got half of NYC’s school vouchers
This is not a guy who does things for personal benefit. In typical fashion, I imagine he would have pocketed some of Cohen’s money, or sent some of it to another Jewish endeavor. But the overarching real reason behind doing this was to fund the Jewish schools. Haredi corruption is like this. The Cars4Kids, the 1bil in nyc public funds, etc.
coffee_enjoyer
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5d ago
As our resident holocaust expert: have there been any cases of elderly camp guards admitting to the holocaust? We should expect that some percent of elderly camp guards would admit to a bunch of traumas and atrocities once they develop age-related declines in inhibition. I imagine most of this is written in German, but I could only find cases of the opposite: elderly camp guards losing their inhibition and then expressing a denial of the event.
coffee_enjoyer
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3d ago
You’re missing the entire substance of the argument, which is that the reason the QoL of agriculture is too low for natives is because of the migrants. If you deport them all, ag needs workers, ag must increase QoL, it looks more like WOOFing which white people love doing.
If I could immediately hire foreign English-speakers as paralegals, importing them in and keeping them in cramp accommodations and ensure they are afraid of leaving the job because finding work as an illegal is tricky, the paralegal market in America would implode. There would be no American paralegals left. So the American paralegal cannot compete with the migrant worker driven paralegal industry.
coffee_enjoyer
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2d ago
It is a useful for assessing priors, because it’s an example of a Jewish billionaire being blackmailed by a Jewish fixer for the funding of a Jewish cause. We don’t have the luxury of knowing who Mossad blackmails in America, so it is not in the realm of possibility to provide a one-to-one counterfactual.
coffee_enjoyer
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3d ago
Then consider Japan, which only employs 50k migrants in its agricultural and forestry sector.
People who have the option to be laborers in cities will prefer that to being agricultural laborers
And if there is an absence of agricultural workers, the wages for agriculture go up, meaning the conditions become as desirable as WWOOFing, meaning people return to work in agriculture.
coffee_enjoyer
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3d ago
Do you think that the Honduran or Mexican illegal tenant housing advertises their roommate openings in Craigslist, in English? No. This is absurd to believe. Especially not around farming operations.
coffee_enjoyer
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4d ago
They do it for years at a time. It’s called WWOOFing. Lots of the scions of high human capital humans do it.
Perhaps you find it hard to believe because, like the person above, you can’t imagine that QoL and wages for farmwork will increase if the semi-slave laborers are deported. When conditions improve, more people will be willing to do it, and more places will look like WWOOFing.
coffee_enjoyer
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3d ago
It would redistribute from “all consumers” to “lower / middle class”, because more competitive lower wage job openings would have a domino effect in that whole class but not above it. In effect, it redistributes from rich to poor and middle class. There’s a cut-off, because our professional classes seldom consider managing a retail store or something instead of entering finance or law. But the retail store manager had considered being a teacher, the teacher had considered working in hospitality, the […] down to agricultural workers. Any small scale model you imagine would show this effect. The same happened with the peasantry after the plague, when the number of agricultural workers decreased so they could compete for wages, but there was a social cut-off preventing nobles and traders from ever considering any work beneath their social level.
The eminent refused to take on menial roles, not because they could not perform these “unskilled” tasks, but because to do so would be unworthy of their social rank, and it was unthinkable to abandon that social and labor hierarchy. Farm work was peasant work, whether performed by serfs bound to a particular manor, tenant farmers or wage laborers hired by the year or the season. But the staggering mortality of the Black Death reduced this previously sufficient peasant population sharply enough to create a severe labor shortage.
This is because we have an enormous amount of wealth “stuck” in the upper class. You can unstuck it by making them pay more for things, sending the payments to those poorer. There was a brief period where this was done with programmers during the dot com boom, but now there is an excess of domestic programmers and also they are importing overseas semi-slave labor.
your argument implies that minimum wage increases are a pure upside policy
If you have too many workers it would leave many unemployed. Hence the whole “deport 22 million and stop letting more in”.
coffee_enjoyer
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3d ago
The Middle Class already does crappy work for a living. I don’t think farming is grunt work — if I had a choice I would sooner enslave the financiers than the farmers. I would rather import Chinese and Indians to take the jobs of White financiers than the farmers, because that is truly innoble work. The Western Christian legacy is considering this work as innoble, as beneath human dignity. Even programming demeans humanity more than “picking fruit”. Look at how they write on Twitter. They are halfways to the singularity and I pray that their wishes come sooner and they become fully machine.
a few Oaxacans and Hondurans
Right, it’s obviously an incredibly larger amount than this which can easily make the White population dwindle to 5% by the end of the millenia.
better for everyone
Not at all. Actually, there’s a good argument to be made that deportations could increase all the wages of the lower middle class. But if we’re really basing things off of “better for everyone” we need to talk about waste among the .1% income level.
coffee_enjoyer
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3d ago
And the Japanese? How about the Japanese in the 80s?
coffee_enjoyer
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3d ago
requires non-free or at least desperate labor to get done in sufficient quantities
What is your excuse for why China is able to do it while having a one standard deviation higher median IQ over America? Even Japan does not utilize as many foreign laborers as America.
coffee_enjoyer
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3d ago
My comment on WWOOF was made to argue that White people — even some of the pristine “human capital” that sociopaths autists certain people value over others — are willing to do genuinely difficult farming for long hours when the social conditions are right. One WWOOFer I know is the son of two high-powered lawyers. I know someone who runs a place and she’s a very intelligent pianist. They would never in a million years do it if they were only around Hondurans who barely spoke English, and if there were zero breaks and harsh foremen watching them. Just like, in the South, not many White people were willing to “compete” with slaves in agricultural work.
Re 1: WWOOF is usually done for many months at a time, probably no more than a year at a time, but you have WWOOFers who do it for 5+ years along different locations as a way to travel for free. Why wouldn’t agricultural work look more like WWOOFing in the absence of a semi-slave class? Do the Chinese working in agriculture today have the same conditions as 1950? Of course not, because wages and benefits have increased. Really we’re just asking, “how badly can we get away with reducing QoL for the poorest using semi-slave labor” which is the wrong question to ask in the face of Jeff Bezoses.
Re 4: I know one place that sells lots of their products at a local market. I know another which is a kind of co-op farm where local people “invest” in a portion of the crops. I am probably describing this poorly.
I am not saying that WWOOFing is the future, I am saying that agricultural work will look more like WWOOFing in the absence of semi slave labor.
coffee_enjoyer
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3d ago
We should make national policy decisions based on the projected wellbeing of citizens. That would include the psychological theories of Csikszentmihalyi, which shows that certain occupational activities are more conducive to happiness.
coffee_enjoyer
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3d ago
In the 2016 and 2020 elections, white non-evangelicals with college degrees and even white non-evangelicals without college degrees supported Biden by a wide margin
The arbitrary filtering of one of the largest religious groups is silly. The shift to D is mostly among women, not the men. If you’re like me, and think politics should be reserved for the male-brained, women shifting D after a media propaganda blitz that utilized emotional propaganda about victimhood is not at all persuasive in regards to any trend that matters.
less than 50% of Republicans are now in favor of decreasing immigration, down from 88% last year.
This question doesn’t tell us anything, because it is in regards to the “present level of immigration”, under Trump who has been (at least presenting himself as) deporting illegals. The average has no idea that the country plans to import so many Indians. The average voter has no idea about the statistics related to yearly immigration, like, at all. You’re asking them about vibes. Shame on Gallop here.
coffee_enjoyer
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3d ago
It’s crucial to understand why this isn’t the case. The mechanic competes in wages with the fruit picker (in an economy with an absence of illegal labor), not directly but transitively, because the mechanic competes with somebody who competes with somebody who […] competes with the fruit-picker. Increasing opportunity for the lower class increases it for the lower-middle, which increases it for the middle. Everyone’s QoL and wages increase. Food prices increase, but wages increase higher than they for the lower and middle. It won’t increase wages for the upper white collar professionals, because there’s a strict barrier where they simply would never consider entering a trade or working as a chef even if wages in these places rose considerable, which is because of the class association. (And remember remittance payments: 66 billion yearly just for Mexico!)
Well-connected Jews have attempted to blackmail Jewish billionaires before. Rabbi Balkany tried to blackmail Steve Cohen into funding yeshivas. Balkany was famous for being a DC “fixer”, so this may have been par for the course for Balkany. There are some billionaire Jews who are unaligned with Zionism. I recall reading the Wikipedia of a Hollywood talent management owner who had no confirmed philanthropy whatsoever, but for the life of me I can’t remember his name, and there’s also Zuckerberg whose donations to Jewish causes are a pittance relative to his philanthropy.
Source? If Epstein is meeting with Zionist Jews in private, this is not evidence that he is blackmailing them. Do you think he used a separate private jet to do this or a separate island? Even if they were raping the girls, do you think Mossad would prefer this to happen under the auspices of a Mossad handler, or do you think they’d prefer that they try it elsewhere? You have no evidence that the majority of blackmail victims were Zionists. The only confirmed blackmail case is Bill Gates.
This is like saying James Bond is a liar. Epstein lying to his clients about why he’s loaded and what connections he has is exactly what he would do if he were Mossad. This cannot be used as evidence that he was unprofessional or untrustworthy, or that he wasn’t Mossad.
You are also ignoring very important evidence:
Despite having connections to Israel, none of Epstein’s victims were Jewish. Even Jerry Seinfeld was dating a 17yo Jewish girl at this time. I imagine this will be excused away on account of Jewish girls not being as drawn to wealthy men, but Instagram attests to this not being the case.
According to Maria Farmer, a victim, there was a theme of Jewish supremacism that pervaded Epstein’s circle, among Epstein / Ghislaine Maxwell / Eileen Guggenheim. “You’re nothing because you’re not Jewish”, “useless white girl”, “anyone who was not Jewish, the way they spoke about them was really horrifying”, “it was every one of them, the way they spoke”. If Epstein’s circle was Jewish supremacist, this would explain his link to Mossad.
You are forgetting that Wexner was linked to Mossad by way of the Mega Group, and Epstein’s connections were throughout the Mega Group.
Also, 4. the attorney handling Epstein’s 2008 case was told that Epstein belonged to intelligence: In 2017, "a former senior White House official" reported that Alexander Acosta, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Florida who had handled Epstein's criminal case in 2008, had stated to interviewers of President Donald Trump's first transition team: "I was told Epstein 'belonged to intelligence' and to 'leave it alone'", and that Epstein was "above his pay grade".
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