coffee_enjoyer
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User ID: 541
coffee_enjoyer
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11hr ago
I don’t have an IQ breakdown, but they have the highest rate of delaying birth until their 40s, per LA Times
When it comes to delaying motherhood to pursue careers and other life aspirations, Bay Area women are leading the nation. This region is home to the greatest share of women having children at 40 and older — a trend that experts chalk up to a combination of economic opportunity, progressive social norms and access to reproductive technology.
Dr. Mary Hinckley, IVF medical director at the Reproductive Science Center of the Bay Area, said she was not surprised to see the region leading the trend of older pregnancies since many women there prioritize careers and other life experiences ahead of starting a family. The Bay Area embraces modern forms of family structures that may or may not include children and, in general, largely does not foster a culture where women feel traditional societal pressures to start a family young, she said. Around half of her patients at the fertility clinic are at least 38 years old.
This is suboptimal for a variety of reasons. If we’re throwing a portion of our smartest and healthiest women there, we want them to have the lowest age of birth and the highest number of kids, to maximize health and intelligence of future generations.
Stories like this do have an effect, not any one story isolated, but the kind of women that are boosted in popularity and status among women through our cultural stories (news, social media).
coffee_enjoyer
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12hr ago
I think this is the exact opposite story that should be disseminated widely in a culture. We want stories of women foregoing money, status, and attention for the sake of a marital pairbond and having children, because that’s what you want high iq Bayarean women doing. This story is unlikely to nudge a reader toward escortdom, but it will nudge them toward valuing money and status even more. Or it will make some think, “if she’s taking advantage of her body for so much money, then it’s definitely okay if I do it on a smaller scale with my boss / manager / investor”. But it’s impossible to get a pro-motherhood + pro-love bio in a newspaper.
coffee_enjoyer
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14hr ago
I must have heard this song 200 times and I never learned the lyrics beyond a few fragments:
Coming out of my cage and I've been doing just fine
It started out with a kiss, how did it end up like this?
he takes off her dress
Jealousy
the price I pay, destiny is calling me
I'm Mr. Brightside
I have a feeling most listeners do not know the full lyrics or the actual narrative of the song. I can vaguely recall a memory of people trying to sing it and not knowing any lyrics besides these fragments. But these words are very potent anyway: kiss, taking off dress, jealousy, price, destiny. Charged words, both genders like it.
The song is just well-designed musically. It’s recognizable within the first second. The guitar intro is really nice. The chorus beginning with “jealousy” is inviting and awesome, peaking with a shout of “price I pay, destiny” (cool!). Reminds me of the Coldplay “I used to rule the world” song — this is an inviting subject to have in your head. Universally relatable feelings (jealousy, defeat).
Maybe, maybe, the lyrics infect our mind subconsciously, and the infidelity / sexual fear exerts a kind of Eyes Wide Shut effect that sticks in our mind. But I don’t know if this is necessary to explain it.
coffee_enjoyer
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1d ago
I imagine that pre ~1960s, if you had a kid with Down Syndrome you weren’t expected to go out of your way to treat him “well”. They wouldn’t have to be dragged to school and their misbehavior was punished with corporal punishment (as it was for normal kids, too). If he fell in a river and drowned or something, it wasn’t a big deal. But modern parents feel compelled to do special things for them, and feel it’s wrong to supply a painful punishment for annoying behaviors even if this may be the only way they can learn. So the burden has increased considerably. If your Down syndrome child gets into an accident because he was left unattended, the parents are blamed, but 100 years ago no one would have cared.
coffee_enjoyer
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4d ago
“People fighting cops to the point of a heart attack” could have a genetic etiology, in the same way “pitbull biting hard and never letting go” is a trait you can breed in dogs. This is a useful medicalization because it explains why these people are dying in custody sometimes. Please describe what you would like police to do about the 0.001% risk of ExDS death when they are arresting people. Should they refrain from restraining everyone altogether, and let them run amok? Do you want them to be restrained in a hogtie position, like Chauvin’s colleague suggested, which has a higher rate of death? Personally, I’m fine with police using enormous net guns to restrain anyone who resists, just like a canon that shoots a heavy net at the subject. Do you think the image of white police officers capturing black people in nets and then dragging them to jail would assuage the public’s tendency to crash out at racism?
coffee_enjoyer
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5d ago
The reason ExDS fell out of fashion is that it’s overwhelmingly a phenomenon of young black men on drugs. For progressives, this means it can’t possibly be real. But it’s possible that there is a rare gene that makes some populations violently resist confinement which, when in combination with certain drugs, results in a heart attack. Why would that be impossible? We can imagine that such an instinct would confer an evolutionary advantage in violent regions of the world and in regions which did not face cold winters where confinement and close proximity would have weeded such an instinct out. And indeed certain Arcticism theorists note that East Asians have 12x less claustrophobia than Arabs, a population with African admixture. So the mere fact that Blacks experience it more frequently is not actually valid grounds for the illegitimacy of the psychiatric state, though this is the primary reason why doctors have become uncomfortable with the syndrome / state / diagnosis.
a jury
Unfortunately, multiracial jury trials are a meme.
coffee_enjoyer
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5d ago
Chauvin judged that Floyd was in a state of excited delerium and placed Floyd in the officially taught prone restraint position (ctrl-f “Minneapolis police training slide”) for cases of excited delerium. Restraining subjects in ExDS was department protocol. Actually there’s a recording of Chauvin and another officer articulating this, and that the reason they had him in this position was because of ExDS. And Floyd’s behavior was classic ExDS. You should probably care if Chauvin was performing departmental policy conscientiously because otherwise you’re punishing the innocent, which is 100x worse than failing to punish the guilty. Why would you want a police officer to be deciding on the fly a new restraint technique? He’s not an expert in restraint, and he’s not a medical expert, and he is being placed in an extremely high stress situation. Would you be okay with sending doctors to the Rape Dungeon if they prescribe something that is only proven to be deadly post-hoc?
coffee_enjoyer
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5d ago
IMO the event is a politically-useful red herring, and the more pertinent question is why one group in the UK gets to use tribalism to increase their wealth and influence but not the actual natives. The Sikhs in the UK rally around their ancestry and their race + homeland (cf Khalistan movement) to increase their in-group preference in business, to fund advocacy groups, and to energize their members who have a strong biological instinct to work for their blood and land (as all human males do). This gives them a variety of extra psychological and social boosts over the deracinated British, whose members are taught not to favor their own kind in business, who have no mainstream advocacy networks, and who do not dance around with swords and guns while hoping for purified and sovereign Bongistan. These things constitute a huge advantage and you can see the consequences in economic performance. Allow the native British to be as ingroup focused as the Sikhs, otherwise you’re just allowing a foreign group to have an eternal advantage over you in your own country (while using your resources to fund their own sovereignty movement back home), which is ridiculous and embarrassing. Of course, I’m not a Brit or Irishman or Scotsman, I am just embarrassed on their behalf.
coffee_enjoyer
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8d ago
French or Dominican-English.
coffee_enjoyer
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9d ago
These memes were a way to very subtly attack the political culture of the period. Because the basis of the meme was, “we are going to pretend that this gorilla was just as important as whatever supposed human tragedy we see on the news”. That’s what made it funny. The memes were not about caring for Harambe, but the idea that you are treating a gorilla like a globally newsworthy martyr like Michael Brown.
coffee_enjoyer
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14d ago
It’s possible they are lying on their self-reports, but this study shows mate desirability falls when either male or female participants know the number of partners of a prospective match. Maybe there’s a better study somewhere. In the case of Alex Cooper, she is famous and worth $60 million dollars. Many men will look past flaws for fame and fortune.
I’m more confused why the FreePress is running this piece. I thought this was a conservative mag? Is it not anymore?
This could plausibly be explained by genes, as the selection event that filtered Normal Irish into Traveler Irish would have selected for the most antisocial Irishman. If Cromwell’s invasion caused many Irish to be homeless, and this is the event which triggered the formation of the traveler community, which type of Irishman decided to continue living itinerantly post-upheaval? Which decided to continue this way of life over the centuries? Those who were made homeless but who were prosocial didn’t stay homeless; those who were prosocial yet born into the community would have left (throughout the 18th century). So there’s a plausible genetic mechanism by which [make most of the Irish homeless] followed by [select those who continue being homeless after a decade] would have selected for the uniquely antisocial. All that’s left would be [let the prosocial born in the community leave], which didn’t happen in the 20th century but could have in the 18th and 19th, followed by [let the most antisocial have the most children]. If the itinerant lifestyle selects for antisocial genes because the most antisocial traveler can steal the most goods and thus afford the healthier children, then we can maybe work out a genetic explanation. In the same way, the Gypsy community weeds out the most guilt-prone because they would be unable to inflict harm on another human without emotional distress via the daily scheming grind. Something something pitbulls and golden retrievers.
We could also have to look at what the normal Irish were doing 18th-21st century. Were they weeding out their antisocial by imprisoning and executing “their own”, while the travelers were simply fleeing with their criminals in tow? This would also elucidate a genetic divergence etiology
coffee_enjoyer
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15d ago
Replying under myself to make an additional point: should it not in theory be easy to stop this behavior while retaining the basic structure of capitalism?
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jail time for infractors and the expropriation of all of their wealth and property. Like, actual punishments. Why are we not actually punishing these people.
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multi-million dollar payouts to whistleblowers, plus national honors. Place their portraits in the White House, they are model citizens.
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a government program that sends out mailers and emails to every vendor in the country, asking them about their experiences with services in exchange for a small payment for their time (this is to know where to investigate)
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Use AI to determine which industries should be lowering their prices (but are in an unspoken agreement not to), and then force them to or tax them
coffee_enjoyer
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15d ago
In the real world the consumer has no idea what price he could be getting without the corrupt tactics employed by Amazon. He has no idea that Amazon was secretly increasing prices. He has no reason to think that this was in the realm of possibility, and would assume that there were laws against price-fixing. He would have no reason to know any of this was happening, because the lawsuit showing this was only publicized last month.
For years, Amazon has reached out to its vendors and instructed them to increase retail prices on competitors’ websites, threatening dire consequences if vendors do not comply. Vendors, bullied by Amazon’s overwhelming bargaining leverage and fearing punishment, agree to raise prices on competitors’ websites, or to remove products from competing websites altogether. This price fixing scheme typically begins with Amazon demanding that vendors “fix,” “correct,” “increase,” “raise,” or “look into” the prices of products on other retailers’ websites. These directives to vendors are backed by the threat of significant penalties for failure to comply — ranging from advertising and promotion restrictions, to demands for financial compensation, to the removal of vendors’ products from Amazon.
coffee_enjoyer
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16d ago
A sort of tangential comment, but when reading that in one month we have Amazon and retailer price-fixing, 90% of poultry suppliers price-fixing, most of the world’s shipping container manufacturers price-fixing, and a new investigation into beef price-fixing, I’m thinking the model of consumer capitalism is simply wrong today. It’s easy and desirable for wealthy owners to coordinate together to maximize profits by agreeing on prices in unison and only changing this formula to prevent a competitor from gaining a foothold in the industry with the deployment of predatory pricing. You can’t do anything about this, and if they’re clever, they realize that it is in their collective interest to never lower prices and instead make more money through coordination without actually putting anything in writing. The system actually just sucks!
coffee_enjoyer
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17d ago
basically zero difference in hassles
Nope, never married in general population are 10% further hassled totally (where 100% is maximally hassled) than married Amish with children
Married genpop have fewer hassles than [never] married
Does this support your original argument? Even so the difference is larger compared to Amish. But all the differences have a fine p value.
Better yet
By the way you respond I am very skeptical of how honest you are about stress
coffee_enjoyer
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17d ago
I will side with the 200+ wives
having kids makes little difference to psychosocial hassles for married women
reduces within cohorts + significant differences between cohorts
All the benefits are due to being Amish
A SAHM culture. Younger unmarried Amish statistically likely to be around kids all day btw
Even unmarried women have fewer hassles if they are Amish
Married & kids Amish have fewer hassles than unmarried. When number go up it mean hassle go up
why is there no benefit to psychosocial hassles from having kids if kids relax women
Hassle one metric. Not best metric. Other metrics for between pops. Metric still evidence. Shows having kids reduce hassle in both pops and between pops. Lower for married w kids. 48 = max stress. 12 = absolutely no stress.
coffee_enjoyer
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17d ago
But nothing you’ve posted indicates that you really know anything about this. You don’t mention any studies. You don’t reference anything. You misunderstood the study I quoted.
None of these are broken out by married/not married/children/no children
If we’re comparing one set with a huge amount of married women with children, to another set with a far smaller amount, then we done have to break it down further. The set that maximizes SAHM is extremely happier. If you have better evidence you should post it. Reasonable people work with the evidence they have. You’re criticizing the best study for its imperfection without presenting better evidence.
You're way overextending the evidence to look at depression rates among Amish vs genpop
Happy to see a counter-study
coffee_enjoyer
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17d ago
I wonder if I can find a traditional Saudi guy to chime in. If he has three wives, then you would be forced to believe whatever he says on this subject, as that’s 3x the wives and 10x the female relatives. It’s funny to imagine a type of guy who weighs anecdotal evidence by number of wives and is essentially compelled to believe whatever a Salafist says about the relaxation of married women, having no way to argue from an empirical standpoint. (Indeed the empirical evidence suggests that Saudi women are not relaxed, but you would never know this if you only surveyed random men from Saudi Arabia).
The study doesn't measure 'relaxation.'
It does by way of the % anxiety or depression and the % feeling overloaded are proxies of relaxation. The opposite of relaxation is stress (overloaded) and anxiety. Arguably the depressive symptoms also factors in here.
never married women score higher on psychosocial hassles than the other groups
In both groups, the within-group “married with children” are less hassled than never married. And we can compare between these two sets of groups, one set where 32% has 6+ children and the other where only only 4% has 6+ children, and we find that the one with more children is slightly less hassled while scoring better on anxiety and depression. And given the relationship between life stressors and depression, it’s significant that the group of women of which 32% have 6+ kids has 1/10th the depressive symptoms. We can also extrapolate from the % on psychiatric meds a little (Girlboss Americans are more medicated).
coffee_enjoyer
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18d ago
I don’t know, I’m just not convinced that your anecdota is valuable here as a generalized principle. There’s no reason for me to think that you have insight into female happiness, nor your wife or female friends. Neither do I think that women have strong insight into their own happiness, because humans are bad at predicting what makes them happy, both male and female. Hence why someone like Csikzentmihalyi can come in and totally revise how we understand peak emotional experiences. And why papers like the Paradox of Declining Female Happiness are important. Imagine how crazy it would be to think that humans can decide nutrition for themselves by taste? So I will err on the side of the Amish. The study indicates their lifestyle make women pretty relaxing even though they babymax.
coffee_enjoyer
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18d ago
I’m extrapolating because she’s your n=1, or within your n=5. How else can I respond to your sample? I have to infer from what I know about American life because I have no details.
Has a mother ever told you that raising (especially small) children is relaxing?
Yes. But not every moment of it. But that are major moments of relaxation. And traditional cultures find ways to make it relaxing. You don’t think rocking a child to sleep with a lullaby is relaxing to women? Or seeing them jump in puddled in a cute raincoat? Or telling a fun story to make them either behave out of fear or out of reward? I’ll grant it’s also stressful for traditional women, at times, but they have the training that makes it more enjoyable.
have you ever done something hard, taxing, exhausting, yet absolutely worth doing?
Yes but these things often bring relaxation, too. There’s relaxation after a hard bike ride, and you are more relaxed on the whole than never biking. So on the whole, an experience with stress can be relaxing. But not if you’re multitasking two huge stressors, or one huge stressor without previous training. If you told me to unicycle while juggling it would be horribly stressful, but if I mastered it in childhood then I would be a very relaxed clown indeed, happy to show off my neat skills. This is Csikzentmihalyi’s flow state: optimal human mood occurs when doing a challenging thing around the limits of our skill. (The lowest mood is on Sunday mornings when someone lacks a challenge to do). This is the most anxiolytic human state. Alex Honnold is relaxed despite free-soloing mountains all day because he mastered that skill, and I suppose he tells himself that is has “purpose”, but it’s not exactly raising up new life.
in the sense that you derive this knowledge entirely from reading words on a screen
There’s only one other way to gain wisdom about this without reading: going around conducting polls. I have not gone around conducting polls in these communities. There’s not another way, as far as I know. Not one that’s reliable.
coffee_enjoyer
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18d ago
When you say that she isn’t stressed, you mean that she isn’t stressed generally speaking. But that generality is in the fulfillment of the tasks of life that she spent 35,000 hours mastering since preschool (school time + homework + ECs). School made her extremely adept and comfortable in the skills of dealing with occupational burdens in corporate America. She may be extremely good at spreadsheeting. This leads to comfortability because humans are comfortable doing what they are trained and reinforced to do. (The Chinese boy manning the cash register at the restaurant will be completely fluent in the stresses of restaurant-running by the age of 12, whereas it would take a 25yo years to develop the same fluency).
But school did not teach her anything that would lead to comfort in the domain of motherhood. That is a totally distinct set of skills that have more to do social habits and stress resilience. School did not have her carry around a doll 24/7 for a few years, or teach her how to sleep with the child so that it doesn’t cry at night. It didn’t teach proper breastfeeding or weening. It didn’t teach her how to speak to a child or how to tell fairytales that makes children behave. She wasn’t taught stress resilience as a caregiver. She wasn’t given any sort of role model relevant to the domain of motherhood, the chief domain of her existence.
I’m assuming that you understand that people are comfortable doing tasks which have been reinforced and tasks which they have been trained to do. I’m assuming that you know that traditional cultures imbue women with this training implicitly or explicitly in adolescence. I’m assuming that you can understand how the study would debunk the claim that motherhood is stressful (the population with tons of children is much less stressed than the one with very few). These are reasonable assumptions. If you want ancecdota you can go to an Amish locale and ask around, I guess.
coffee_enjoyer
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18d ago
In the Amish sample, 19% have no children and the rest have children. 33% have between 6 and 21 children. In the general pop, 28% have no children. (That’s going by “number of pregnancies” as a proxy for children). It’s important to learn how to read a simple data table if, in the same reply, you tell me that I don’t know what I’m talking about. Now if you go down to the Psychosocial Hassles Scale, married with children Amish are happier than never married general population women.
We have to look at data because we do not exist in a SAHM culture. So in regards to the n=1, she might be stressed around her children because she never learned the skills of motherhood during her formative years of adolescent cognition. Almost no American adolescents learn this. Or maybe she was taught and internalized antinatal values, that a woman’s worth is in her job or something. This is grilled into minds at a young age. Or maybe she is more easily stressed because her own mother-child was severed early. It really can be anything. Because the important question is whether women would be happier being a at home with kids in a culture which prepares them for this role, versus our current culture which promotes almost the exact opposite values and skills (sedentary studying, avaricious competition, &tc).
28% of the Amish women work
Likely those who are finished with motherhood plus the ones who haven’t started.
coffee_enjoyer
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18d ago
I don’t think your n=1 wife who likely works has any relevance here. But maybe you married a Mennonite chick, I don’t know. Sorry about your stressed out wife. Here is n=288 showing that sahm culture produces 1/4th the amount of “feeling overloaded” as girlboss culture and 1/10th the depressive on a symptoms scale.
I don’t quite disagree, but that’s why it’s important to promote the civilizational ideal of women through stories, including via news stories like the above. If you proclaim the superiority of women who give up creature comforts in favor of the creation of new life, then that provides social / emotional / spiritual comfort to these women, while restricting it from women who make incorrect life decisions (who don’t get these positive feelings). You are, in essence, increasing the rewards for the right decision. But the prostitute story increases the rewards for the wrong decision. It’s like, why did MacKenzie Scott donate 1 billion dollars to HBCUs? The news taught her that this was socially valuable; it enhanced her honor, status, sense of worth, and thus her comfort with herself. It absolved her from the fear and the shame of not doing what she’s supposed to be doing, which is a common feeling among humans and which we can guide through stories. America’s hyper-striving Bayareans feel guilty or ashamed that they’ve never completed a marathon or sold a startup or gotten into some party, but you can literally just rewire them into feeling this way about prosocial and pro-civilizational things if you own their news and algorithms.
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