faceh
1hr ago
Even if the roads are winding?
Florida has a feature where it is very flat so almost every road is straight as an arrow, so one can speed 'safely' if there is light traffic and no cops.
Driving in Northern Georgia was a different matter, especially at night.
faceh
2hr ago
You're just making me push it more towards urban.
"Access to forms of nature resembling 'wilderness'" is a strong 'rural' indicator but some suburbs butt up right against extensive national or state preservation parks, so if you're telling me this spot just has regular parks then it reads as even more 'city-like' than I thought.
I said 20 minutes, not 20 miles for a reason though.
20 miles CAN be a 30-45 minute drive depending on the type of roads you got out there.
If you can drive 20 miles in 20 minutes reliably (i.e. average speed of 60 mph) that strongly implies enough development to be suburban. In urban areas... the traffic is the factor that makes that almost impossible.
One feature of rural living (that can be shared with decaying urban areas) is roads in generally bad condition forcing you to drive more carefully and slowly.
This is hitting on my point. "accessibility of true amenities" plays into my perception of the area's qualities.
"Rural living" implies you have to do things to keep yourself amused because there isn't some major entertainment venue available within easy distance.
If you can hop a train after work and manage to hit up a Major Sports team's game with a bunch of other fans, you're at least Suburban.
If your only and preferred option for sports spectating is the local high school football teams... most likely rural to ruralish suburban.
faceh
2hr ago
Look, I may be a simple Suburban Lawyer, but when I type "Live Theater" into Google Maps over Manhattan, and I get OVER 100 RESULTS I question your assertion. Obviously mostly centered on Broadway.
faceh
2hr ago
Was going to say. There's no denying that the U.S. as a whole is not very 'urbanized' compared to a lot of nations.
Its really just "pockets" of high urbanism, TONS AND TONS of rural, buffered by the suburban zones. Although in Florida there's a whole lot of pockets of suburbs rather disconnected from anything else.
They're full of cars but what do the majority of people actually do for transport day to day?
I'm reliably told that Majority of NYC residents do not own a car.
Millburn, NJ is clearly suburban, despite a live theatre being right there. Density 900/km^2.
Almost my point, though. Looking at photos of Millburn, to me it reads just barely towards the 'urban' side of the divide, and then I look at its proximity to NYC, and I am reinforced in this. I can also see, however, that it has close proximity to large swathes of nature which pulls it back towards 'rural'. Finally, Google tells me that the majority of the residents live in unincorporated "Short Hills", which appears pretty sparsely populated for its area.
So really its a ruralish area attached to an urbanized one? So my guess is the majority of residents can't walk to the theater.
Yes, its a suburb compared to New York, but if my suburban ass were to visit I think I'd feel like I was in 'the city' to some degree.
(my mental model of New Jersey, incidentally, is a lot of urban sprawl attached to a lot of deciduous forests. I have never been to New Jersey.)
Hmm,there is an impact of Zoning on all this.
For reference, I live in a single-family house that is in an area that is zoned agricultural, and is situated just outside the local town's limits in unincorporated territory. If you squint and fudge you could say I'm living rural, but I can drive to several theaters easily, clearly I'm living suburban. There's some rural territory if I drive about 20 minutes east/Inland. Lehigh Acres, Florida is just wall to wall single-family homes, but there ain't nothing to do out there in terms of amenities, so I consider that a 'developing' rural area, myself. Lehigh Acres does not (yet) have a Live Theater.
So, what do you actually mean when you say "urban", "suburban", and "rural" living? Maybe it's something like this.
Urban living: Row houses and apartment buildings, with incidental retail
Suburban living: Single-family and two-family houses, and nothing else
Rural living: Incidental single-family houses in land that is largely agricultural or undeveloped
Funny, I personallyhave a closer definition to this, than any actual density measures, but I realize that I also incorporate an element of culture into it as well.
I can explain thusly:
-
Urban: People get around by foot or bike or public transport.
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Suburban: Mostly cars, interspersed with bikes.
-
Rural: Trucks, horses, or occasional farm equipment.
Likewise, 'how far' do you have to travel to get to the nearest live theater? If you live in an area that is technically sparsely populated but you can drive <20 minutes and see a live production, that's gotta be suburban. If you can walk to see one, OBVIOUSLY Urban.
All of these are correlates with density, so it really just helps sort out the gray areas of the spectrum, I guess. I know of areas that are sparsely populated but wealthy with plenty of amenities in driving range so they're 'suburban' for most pursuits and purposes, even if the locals keep and ride horses. The workers may come in from the nearest metro area, which adds to that point.
Likewise, areas composed of single family homes lined up for miles, which is the stereotypical suburb, but low income and you DO occasionally people keeping farm animals, and its an hour to the nearest theater are 'rural-coded' in my mind, even if there's technically no agriculture going on.
If you put a large apartment block in the middle of nowhere, that might have decently high density but no way is it 'urban', too.
Finally, you can get weird situations where high tourist areas are 'urban' in that there's a ton of people that come around seasonally but it quiets down so much outside of that you might as well be living rurally.
faceh
3d ago
Explain your reasoning on why it is a 'literal Jewish caricature.'
I'll give you the nose, but he's not wearing a hat, nor any other unambiguous "jew" symbols. Is he intentionally dancing close to the fire or are the complainants being overly sensitive?
faceh
4d ago
Liability plays a large role.
Such events can persist until there's a mass casualty event or one (1) child is seriously injured or dies and then public attention and outcry will demand they be shut down.
The big 'appeal' of an organic gathering is that there's not technically any person 'in charge' and thus liable for the actions of the whole. A true "flash mob" (remember when THOSE were a thing?) is a bunch of random folks gathering at a given Schelling point to do a thing that they've all individually, peer to peer, agreed to do with no single person guiding the decision to fruition. Its a semi-random mass cooperation event.
In practice, there's usually someone or someone(s) who is the actual ringleader and can be singled out for legal prosecution, and that disables the event from organizing, or once THAT person serves as an example, the rest will opt not to put themselves at risk too.
The lack of social trust is a subtler problem. Covid itself didn't kill all the social trust. At least, my perception is that governmental institutions took the brunt of the trust hit there. BUT, we also learned that one defector can out you TO said governmental institutions and get you fined, prosecuted, possibly imprisoned.
So generally such a social group will have to be SO secretive and careful about gatekeeping that none of the members are too worried about being betrayed, or your group's activities are innocuous enough that they're beneath the notice of the local sovereigns even if a turncoat goes and reports you.
Car meets thus far occupy the second category. I am pretty sure at SOME point some incident will occur which will bring them under greater scrutiny, it still something very enjoyable while it lasts.
faceh
4d ago
Right, but has he uttered the words "Israel should not exist" and/or "from the river to the sea etc. etc.?"
Not that I'm aware or have heard.
Sounds like your position is "he's dancing around the dog whistle".
faceh
4d ago
It would work just fine if you have a king who respects (not fears) your group and deigns to let them alone for good. But when the king is eventually replaced that favor may not transfer.
In a Democracy, the incentive to bring such a group into the political structure and override their norms with the preferred default is strong and constant.
That's pretty insightful, especially the need to launder politics through culture in order to manufacture consent. Hadn't thought of it in those terms.
Related to the "You may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you" point.
Any culture that's not under control of the political edifice is, potentially, a method for alternative systems and resistance to organize and arise. The state would see this as an intolerable possible threat to sovereignty. On top of that any popular cultural outlet or gate can be turned into a propaganda organ, can't expect them to ignore that.
I've arranged my immediate affairs so that I have as few as possible intersections with political authority. Quite literally, I chose the location of my house in large part because it has the fewest political bodies with jurisdiction over its physical location (i.e. it is outside of the nearest city's limits in unincorporated territory, has no HOA, and has extremely permissive zoning).
And yet, AND YET I know that I can't afford to ignore politics because the political-minded will constantly seek to bring me and my property under their ambit, and it is NOT enough to just retreat, run, and try to stay outside their grasp, it requires active, intelligent resistance and even then its not guaranteed b/c the state has infinite patience.
faceh
5d ago
He notes that Macklemore claiming not to be antisemitic is nonsense when he specifically name-checked CUAD and Students for Justice in Palestine
Here's one of those times having a good memory comes in handy. I have a clear recollection of that time Macklemore was accused of dressing up as a Jewish Caricature. Twelve years ago.
You look at it and tell me. Is this guy dancing around the dog whistle without making it blatant, or are certain Jews just oversensitive to possible slights, threats, and insults?
Probably a little bit of both, I dunno. Seems like a scissor "clearly he just opposes genocide and colonialism" vs. "clearly he is okay with Jews dying and doesn't want Israel to exist."
Yeah.
There's a saying that "EVERYTHING is Political" and I vehemently disagree with it. There are many things one can do and enjoy without there being any political valence to it whatsoever.
But the problem is... You can add politics to anything. so "Anything CAN BE Political" is a statement I do agree with.
And so the asshole types who say "Everything is Political!" are using that, functionally, as an excuse to inject politics into everything, then using the existence of politics in the space to retroactively prove their original statement.
And my point is "no, you're not uncovering a feature of the scene that everyone was studiously ignoring, you are intentionally adding this feature that everyone was very happy was absent, then getting up in arms that people don't like you changing the ground rules without so much as a discussion." Gatekeeping such persons out is critical but also difficult because the motivation for them to smuggle in the politics is substantial and you only have to let one or two in for things to derail.
faceh
7d ago
lol its a mix of that. Some women drivers, although there tends to be more even gender ratios amongst the bikers, I've noted. Mostly tag alongs.
But I went to one event that was put on by the local college's car club and even the college girls who were just wandering through to check things out were generally dressed down.
And look, I'm not expecting most such women to be dressed up like skanks to flirt with the car guys, I just notice the overall style is usually not in the "I'm here specifically to grab attention" mode. Which on net is probably a good thing, but it'd be nice to counterbalance the greasy-looking guys hanging around.
My guess is that the scene around Miami feels a little closer to the Hollywood ideal.
faceh
7d ago
Not at all, I'm in Coastal Florida. There's rural areas about 20 minutes inland, but its one of the fastest growing metro areas in the country.
And check instagram, that's how they usually organize.
Dovetails with my own bemoaning of the seeming demolition of any 'spontaneous' happenings where people with similar interests can, on a shoestring budget, throw together an event mostly on the backs of volunteers and without much centralized organization have an 'organic' gathering of people who actually just want to be there and are, if indirectly, invested in its success. Since Covid disrupted ALL in-person gatherings, I've seen a decline in house parties, block parties, and pub crawls in favor of corporatized events that charge increasingly exorbitant ticket prices and have the most blasé, sanitized entertainment options on offer, often tuned for maximum family-friendly mass appeal. It is very hard to build a 'scene' around these because they don't actually have anything distinct on offer. The profit motive (I think) prevents them from staying in their niche appeal, which requires being somewhat repellant to normies.
I'm not a drug guy myself, especially not hard drugs, but there's absolutely more 'authenticity' in an event where you have people ripping lines of coke in the bathroom and shotgunning Natty Light with Vodka chasers than paying 20 bucks for a domestic beer, 30 for a watered down cocktail, and then shuffling around in a crowd of people to whatever amusements the organizers could get on their budget. The whole thing is, when money/profitability is on the line, the objective is to provide as little of an experience as possible without people actually feeling they wasted their money.
The Ur Example of failing to produce that minimum viable experience would be that Willy Wonka Experience. Well no, actually its Fyre Festival but that one is a class of its own. In contrast, with the organic events, its very very hard to feel 'cheated' when there's no cost of entry and the event is supported by the efforts of committed fans and enthusiasts, yourself included, and people are thus more aligned towards creating good vibes than moving money to the organizers.
In my case, the remedy I've found in the short term is car meets. I bought a 1970 Chevelle a few months back, it is VERY fun to drive, but there's not much you can 'do' with it (legally) unless you go to a racetrack, and the nearest one to me closed down right around when I got the car. So I looked into 'official' car shows, and those are neat but... they feel just like those corporatized events, where the goal is to put money in someone's pocket in exchange for that minimum viable experience (you can LOOK at the pretty cars, don't touch. And definitely don't drive. And if you even THINK about breaking a traffic law we will boot you out). That said, safety and insurance regs basically demand this approach, and the risks to participants would be pretty sizeable otherwise.
But I also discovered that various enterprising individuals will organize a 'meet', usually in some industrial park after dark or a large parking lot after business hours that's somewhat distant from residential zones. And dudes with their tuned up, pimped out, and otherwise kitted out vehicles will ride out to admire each other's cars, posture up a bit about the superiority of their preferred make and model, leave a few skidmarks and take tons of video to edit and post to instagram.
Unfortunately they're rarely as exciting as the movies make them seem. The women in this area also tend to wear jeans and baggy t-shirts instead of high heels and clubwear. Vin Diesel may have lied to me. Cops often show up but generally they will let things be unless it gets rowdy and then they can just politely get the people to disperse. I assume they vastly prefer this to kids doing takeovers or racing around the streets. (The kids still get up to mischief, mind, there's been a number of arrests and a couple deaths in the local area due to street racing. Florida's new Super Speeder law is aggressively enforced)
But it is authentic. People showing up with cars they built by hand, food trucks with various options on offer, 3 different genres and languages of music blaring from sound systems around the parking lot. It becomes whatever the attendees make it, not what the organizer creates. Occasionally a head-turning supercar or some RIDICULOUSLY built out ride rolls through and Mogs everyone, and on occasion they actually do a revving or burnout contest if they can get permission from the property owner.
I'm not the young guy who feels the need to puff out my chest and prove my masculinity anymore so I sort of keep a low profile (although the car draws a LOT of attention) but I've also never seen an actual aggressive interaction at these meets, which is interesting because there's no gatekeeping whatsoever, other than the need to own a car with decent specs to be worth showing up. And THAT is what I like best about them. Even though there's no organized security, no bag checks, no strict rules enforcement, people are on good enough behavior that everyone feels safe to come back each week, and people even bring their kids out for fun. It could very easily devolve and crumble if there were just a few dedicated bad actors.
The culture itself is pretty positive. Mechanically inclined, skeptical of traffic laws, some lacking a certain amount of common sense but generally not malicious about anything. Its been a fun thing to participate in and reminds me that we haven't completely gone over to the dark side where ALL social interactions are monetized and marketed and every spare dollar is squeezed out of your joy for a hobby or activity.
Which of course means there is SOMEBODY out there scheming to find a way to capture all this spare surplus and enclose the commons to funnel that value to themselves. Here's hoping they don't succeed any time soon.
faceh
8d ago
For a long-practicing criminal law attorneys I'm sure they face many over their career.
However the stage it appears to have moved to, where the initial investigation is found to be at least credible enough to merit possible discipline, is rarer.
Sometimes happens when long-practicing attorneys lose a step or two, at least in their administrative practices, and slip up in a critical way that they wouldn't have before.
I have little insight into the merits of the claim but from the professional-ethical standpoint they're fairly 'serious' in nature.
faceh
11d ago
Do they know how this makes them sound?
Yes? No?
I think they are doing what they believe will confer the most status on them in the in-group and uttering words that enrage the outgroup or befuddle normies is an added bonus in that case.
But its crazy how this has been a series of recursively nesting scissor statements from the jump.
Likewise, its the apotheosis of the Progressive project: women exercising civic authority to serve on a jury, fully autonomous agents able to exercise their own will over others... completely swayed by the argument that women's emotional and mental instability renders them immune from accountability and punishment, and yet having their goals thwarted by a black guy, where the black guy is actually in favor of 'lynching' the white woman, for reasons thus far known only to him.
And history's Supervillain, the Old White Male Attorney suddenly cast as the feminist icon in the drama. The innocent woman saved by the very type of person who used to be her worst oppressor. A hero.
Except, not so much. Love the timing on this drop.
The Simulation masters have a twisted sense of humor, but its A+ writing. Expectations subverted at every turn.
faceh
11d ago
Good point on that.
Its like why I keep saying that the financial records tied to Jeffrey Epstein are probably going to hold more 'interesting' details than the sex crimes aspect.
Yes but that's part of the larger rise in blaming Israel for like, everything.
I think there's a decline in conspiratorial thinking about 9/11 as some big hinge in a large globalist plot intentionally carried out to bring the New World Order.
Somewhat ironically 9/11 trutherism seems to have legitimately fallen out of style. "Bush did 9/11" was a meme for a while, and you still occasionally see "JET FUEL CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS" but now few people even think or talk about Bush much, although the guy is still alive. Although it has dovetailed back in with antisemitic conspiracies.
I remember Zeitgeist being a big deal when it came out. Some stuff like the collapse of Tower 7 still bugs me a bit but honestly I do find the facially presented story is probably mostly true, with some probability reserved for how much or little certain governmental figures, particularly U.S. intelligence, were aware of and 'allowed' to happen. But people don't get as frothy about it now.
Hell, now that I think of it QAnon basically faded from public consciousness entirely too.
Then you have found some suburban Amish.
Although I'd go ahead and say that "neigbhors with Amish farmers" is a ruraldom indicator.
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