faceh
21hr ago
The "simp" problem is hard to quantify.
I've come to believe that a lot of it isn't really Western Men obsessed with female validation. Thanks to the internet, its actually millions upon millions of third world males obsessed with bobs and vagene. But for the receiving woman... attention is attention. Money still spends.
I also note how many prominent 'male feminist' types keep getting outed as wanton sex pests and then devoured by the very mob they courted. We are selecting for guys who are able to avoid that trap.
Men really could use a better, coordinated method of keeping each other from pedestalizing women who don't give a crap about them, and, ideally, ostracizing the guys who defect hard and try to become good 'allies' as a means of gaining sexual access.
faceh
21hr ago
(Like - suppose I wanted to marry now, the last thing I want to do is to court some old fuck who's probably a backwards boomer opposite of me on politics and all that. I'd rather court the woman, notwithstanding all the woes of modern courting!)
Right, but at least you might expect that dad can be an ally in your quest to win his daughter if he decides you're worthy, he can scare off the other suitors and encourage/push the daughter to make her choice and stick with it.
I've had a bit of a history of pursuing fatherless women and the benefit of not having to earn the respect of a guy who considers his girl a princess is usually outweighed by her having zero discipline in her behavior and are very bad at interpreting male behavior correctly, so its like trying to domesticate a feral fox. You get bitten a lot in the process and they often slip away back into the forest anyway.
faceh
22hr ago
I still struggle a bit with the mechanics of it all.
The reason things that upset women are political nonstarters is because they will have a disproportionate freakout, they'll get on TV shows and cry (exploiting DEEP biological wiring), they'll march in the street and scream, they'll directly confront people (knowing they won't be physically assaulted!) and they'll, ultimately, show up at the polls and vote against whomever dared make the suggestion in the first place.
But on the flip side, all you need to do in response, as a male politician, is say "no, we're doing it anyway." The women have no recourse beyond more screaming. They don't enforce the laws, and they can't actually go on strike and bring society to a halt. I note that when Roe v. Wade was overturned there was a similar massive freakout... and a few places passed some new laws, but generally speaking things normalized pretty fast. Abortion remains THE primary voting issue for women, but that's all they can do is cast votes and scream. You can plug your ears.
So I suspect we're just waiting to achieve a critical mass of men who are capable of saying "no, we're doing it anyway."
Either because they're just that Chadly or because they've got absolutely nothing left to lose.
I don't mind RNG when
A) its the natural result of large scale processes that combine the effects of hundreds of different inputs...
and
B) There are clearly steps I can take to change my own odds or move to a different place in the gamespace where I think the odds are more favorable, and thus have some control of my fate.
The whole problem with apps is they're manipulating the RNG for their purposes, and in so doing skewing outcomes in a way that is REALLY bad for the players, and in a way that the players themselves are unable to influence.
Even in a Casino I can at least make the choice between playing Poker, Blackjack, Slots, or Roulette, with the varying influence of 'skill' on the outcomes that is available there, even knowing the house always wins.
faceh
23hr ago
I mean, one of the few situations where an average man will suddenly find himself on the receiving end of attention from multiple attractive women is going to a (decent) strip club. Where, of course, they are trained and optimized for getting you to pay as much money as quickly as possible.
So you figure out real quick that attractive women showing spontaneous interest are usually being put up to it by some other third party with other motivations.
And it is very hard to identify the rare case where the intentions are genuine, and the further along you go trying to figure it out, the more you're exposing yourself to whatever scam is being run.
One time I made a profile on a sugar-daddy website, and had the crazy experience of the hot women (well, assuming they were real) crowding into MY inbox. Including, through random utter chance, I girl I knew from high school.
Quite the clearpill for me.
faceh
23hr ago
This is maybe the worst factor.
If you approach (or are approached) in a public setting, you can expect a White Knight or bridge troll to intervene, at least passively, with the attempts you're making to advance things with your target. Suddenly you're having to put on a performance for a larger audience.
And sure if your charisma rolls are high enough maybe this isn't a failure condition
But its an added order of magnitude having to pass her shit-tests while there is a hostile-ish interloper you also have to pacify.
And wingmen seem to be a less common thing these days?
faceh
23hr ago
I remember being an awkward teenager and once asking a stunningly beautiful waitress for her number. She turned me down, saying something like "I have a boyfriend, but that took balls. Girls like that." It was an unambiguous but positive rejection, and didn't cost her anything.
Yeah. Tons of younger women seem to be unable to effectively flirt OR to effectively and gracefully reject an otherwise polite advance.
You can give men all the coaching you like, but if the women they're targeting either completely shut down/retreat... or get nasty in response, then they will RAPIDLY decide there's no point to it.
Doubly so if the reward for a 'successful' approach is just further humiliation on the actual date. And they know marriage and kids are probably not in the cards.
Yep.
This is why I keep throwing myself against the tide trying to point out how the problem is systemic and advice that focuses on what any individual man can do is going to fail for the vast majority of them, which will make them more angry.
Because the men need to cooperate and there's various interests who would feel extremely threatened if men started coordinating to advance their interests, so they expend substantial wealth and effort to disrupt any attempt at coordination.
And I'll also throw in that part of the reason is that women almost instinctively cooperate on the social level even if they are in breakneck competition with each other on the individual level. If they perceive a threat to the interests of the gender, they will very rapidly array as a unified front, and peck any defectors into line. It is uncanny to watch.
Hence social movements can spring up almost overnight to advocate for a women's social issue. Whereas any pressing male problem tends to be stifled for years for simply being unpopular to rally around.
Compare the funding that goes into curing Breast Cancer vs. Prostate Cancer, despite both having similar fatality rates.
faceh
23hr ago
Consider that these protestors were acting specifically in resistance to the current regime, though.
Practically, this makes them a much more useful tool.
Morally, well, its usually better to lend support to people who are actually asking for it and, in turn, have some capacity to act on their own once you give them that support.
Likewise with Venezuela, we have a friendly party to throw in with.
faceh
23hr ago
Do you think that the US military has magic AD protecting Trump that it has never deployed anywhere else in the world?
... I'm not counting something like this out entirely.
But I don't think any other country has a capability that they could deploy with any confidence that it would ensure Trump's demise, as long as he is serving in the Office of POTUS.
faceh
23hr ago
Yes and no.
Even moderately attractive women have a ton of options in front of them. They could go on a new casual date every single day if so inclined.
The stopping problem is basically the ENTIRETY of what they face. But most don't have anything resembling a strategy.
And the very fact that they have so many options inflates their self-perceived value, so they're immediate incentive is to keep going until their PERFECT candidate arrives.
But that perfect candidate is likely a dude who, himself, has many options. And so the market devolves into something like the Redpill model of women in active pursuit of those perfect candidates, and those perfect candidates able to passively select/exploit casual hookups almost at will.
For the guys who don't have options, there's not much to be done about their stopping problem, since they can't select from what they don't have.
I really think its just the gamified nature of the apps that makes it unworkable even for those with a good strategy as it mixes in people with very different expectations and backgrounds.
There's a point there, but the whole issue is that women aren't accepting such correction or coaching.
Men hear the coaching, many will attempt to apply it, and after they put in the work they may even notice improvement but, I'd suggest, rarely do the rewards scale with the effort required. This becomes disheartening. If they complain, the only advice is 'man up and try hard.' Over and over again.
Women, by and large, will interpret attempts to coach or correct them as a critique, will often react badly to this critique, reject it outright, and go to their girl's groupchat or post a tiktok to complain about people trying to 'control women's behavior' and they'll immediately have their opinion confirmed and validated by other women (and the male orbiters) and watch a dozen other videos which claim she's empowered for standing her ground.
They're much more ensconced in a media environment that coddles their emotions and confirms their biases overall.
So attempting to do one on one uplifting of individual women when there's an entire Billion-dollar multimedia edifice screaming the opposite in their ear will probably be ineffective in most cases.
It could still be worth doing, but can we at least be honest about the source of the issue?
I daresay one major reason so many feel completely comfortable heaping shame and pressure on men but leave women's behavior alone is the tacit admission that women won't accept influence or advice from someone they do not respect, and so they wouldn't listen at all (or would attack the person).
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