fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
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User ID: 3415
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
We know the potential of the online left to find, doxx, and terrorize people. It's not even up for debate. They will terrorize ICE agents' families. The tools and collective effort that anti-ICE and anti-Trumpers have at their disposal when it comes to identifying, locating and terrorizing these people is massive, and it will be an all-hands-on-deck effort. To them, they would be doxxing Nazis, so it would be for a noble cause.
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they don't do this to cops, even during the 2020 summer of love
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just arrest people who do this
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if ICE was in any way sympathetic to the median American, doxxing them would make the Dems look terrible, and prosecuting them would make Republicans look great. If half the country is fine with them getting doxxed, you have fucked up massively, and only have yourself to blame.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
Now farm and slaughterhouse workers are probably the least problematic ones, when native citizens have the choice between doing those jobs and jail they choose jail. Somebody has to pick the crops and slaughter the chickens and thats a very reasonable principled exception.
I'm so confused what your view on immigration is. "I'm fine with immigrants if they do shitty jobs"
So then you're fine with the status quo? What % of illegal immigrants are gang bangers?
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
They're not US citizens
The concern is if you have law enforcement doing wack crazy shit, what if they accidentally pick up a US citizen and because they're operating at a level of "wack and stupid" they get shipped off? We should demand more competency from the government.
FAFO, lawbreakers
Again, what if the government makes you a lawbreaker? This is such myopic thinking. These are terrible precedents. This is literally the definition of the "first they came for" quote but you're just super confident it'll only be the first step.
Perfect is the enemy of good
Sure, but then you can't complain when I call your guy a retard and his policies terrible. If you want to have low standards that's fine, but I get to point at them and call them terrible. Your standards suck.
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I am not very pro-immigration myself. I am mildly distressed I guess, but mainly because I feel kind of like I'm screaming into the void as a centrist.
This administration is retarded, and isn't even doing the thing they say they're doing, and it kind of feels like this (normally quite smart) community is content to clap like seals instead of going "wait why aren't they actually doing things that would solve immigration permanently, and instead going for maximum heat and chaos?"
I really think that many people feel this way and therefore really do not care what ICE does to illegals.
Polling shows trump getting steadily less popular on immigration all year. Down and to the right. So while you're right, that group is shrinking due to his shitty execution.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
The second part does not appear to be true. Or rather, it is true that "most" people agree with it, but there's a significant number opposing it both rhetorically (including here) and physically who do not, and that should not be ignored.
This is my thesis. People want action on immigration, but hate how they see ICE doing it. ICE is being run poorly and the administration is fucking this up.
This is pretty much unproven. There's lots of stories, but most of them describe pretty ordinary law enforcement stuff (which I often object to, but applying such complaints only to ICE is not valid) and often use overwrought words like "kidnapping".
They've done enough dumb/weird/unpleasant looking things that it's safe to say they're not operating at a super high level of discipline or care.
Breaking a dude's leg and holding him in a hospital for 37 days with no charges under a fake name so he's harder to find isn't "ordinary law enforcement". Shipping people to prisons in different countries isn't ordinary either. Even if those people are illegal, it leaves a bad taste in their mouths, and eventually at this level of sloppy chaos, they will do something stupid and fucked up to an American citizen who isn't illegal (if they haven't already).
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
ICE literally posted a montage of masked dudes blowing up doors to the pokemon theme song.
I'm not saying the media isn't a biased shitshow, it is, but it would be much less effective if ICE were acting in an extremely professional and regimented manner, they aren't.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
Cops manage just fine for centuries and they're front line. Also very unpopular in blue areas and yet aren't being murdered in their sleep.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
Ah
I mean to be honest people have been responding to me with somewhat obtuse responses and I note ZERO responses across any of my comments as to why enforcing immigration laws but explicitly ignoring farms and hotels doesn't undermine the whole project so it's not just him avoiding discussions he doesn't feel like having
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
Sure but when the target audience is <50% of the people (and shrinking) in a democracy, your messaging strategy is kind of stupid
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
I think a majority of leftists believe that their official mission is illegitimate, and borders in general are basically unethical
Does anyone on this site think this? I meant like this argument in this thread.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
None of the above. I take law enforcement seriously and I expect the government should too.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
The problem is that we have so many people on the left who are hellbent on pointing out the hypocrisy of the right for not deporting people in certain industries
What is the issue with this? It's a clear sign that the administration doesn't actually want to fix this. If they did, they'd go after the obvious places illegals were working. They come here because they work. Stop the people who pay them from paying them.
Why are hotels being told explicitly they won't be cracked down on? How does that make ANY sense with the stated goals of removing illegal immigrants?
They don't actually want to fix this, which makes the enforcement they are doing feel pointless and stupid
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
Just go after American farm owners who pay illegals American money to work for them.
You don't even need to deport them, make it impossible for them to work, make them poorer in America than they are in Mexico, that will solve this permanently.
If you aren't targeting the employers of illegal immigrants, you aren't serious about immigration. If you aren't pushing e-verify, you aren't serious about immigration. If Trump EXPLICITLY says he's not enforcing immigration against farms and hotels, it's clear he's not serious about immigration.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
They literally posted a montage of dudes in masks blowing up doors and arresting people with the pokemon theme song.
No media bias required to look retarded
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
Well they're explicitly not going after farm workers, even though a huge % of illegals work on farms. I'm sure the Mexican nanny labour market has gotten much tighter, but that doesn't effect as many people.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
That wasn't the question. The question is whether he was disappeared
What if we amend "disappeared" to "breaking someone leg and unlawfully holding them in a hospital for 37 days without charging them and while making them hard to find for a month"
Are you fine with your government doing that to it's people? Weird hill to die on lol
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
Remember when Democrats believed that the people fighting in Iraq were bottom-feeder 10% loser retards who just wanted to be racist and murder sand-n**gers?
You should explain why that belief was as justified as this one.
Both are retarded beliefs, and both government actions are retarded as well
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
What about releasing an ICE montage over top of the pokemon theme song?
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
It's also the El Salvadorian prison stuff. The whole vibe sucks.
I agree, the objection wouldn't have changed a lot, but the sway it has over the median American would.
If ICE acted in a less shitshow aggro way, the opposition to them would look more like crying blue-hair SJWs and not a broader coalition of SJWs, Americans who don't like para-military themed law enforcement, etc
Then, it would be a really intelligent wedge issue to bait democratic leadership into opposing something broadly popular, instead of now something that half of Americans don't like.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
ICE themselves posts videos of them raiding places. They posted a video to the pokemon sound track. The pokemon one has clips of masked dudes blowing up doors. It doesn't look good man.
You don't even need the media lol, they're structuring their own optics. It doesn't look great.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
But regardless of media spin they are actively choosing to have insane optics. The Hyundai plant. Tiktok videos with the pokemon theme song "gotta catch em all" on what I thought was a very serious topic that required significant government resources.
Also, again, they'd be way more justified if this wasn't so obviouslyfake. They don't actually want to solve this, they just want the base to think they are. It undermines all of it.
Where is e-verify? Why are they not going after illegal immigrants in hotels? Or farms? Why aren't they going after american employers, all of whom are documented, who make up a much smaller # of entities to deal with? American citizens pay illegal immigrants American dollars to work. Go after them! That's so much easier, that's so much more effective. Illegal immigrants will deport themselves if they can't make money to send home, they're not here for fun.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
I don't understand why everyone is beating around the bush (actually I do, it's partisanship, or in rationalist speak "in-group bias").
ICE's mission obviously isn't a bad mission, and most people agree with the overall goal.
ICE's conduct is obviously not good, especially in an American context, which is a country that (ideally) has a stronger aversion to government overreach than most.
"Muh masks" seems to have become a meme here, but it's real. You're Americans, why are you okay being cucked by your government. Masked non-uniformed men are stuffing people into vans. Not just that, they're sending them to third world prisons??? That's insane. Obviously it's nowhere near as bad as the NKVD, but why are you okay taking even a step in that direction? What if the Democrats spin up the "super ATF" who start kidnapping people who fuck up their gun paperwork into unmarked vans to be sent to Romania? Government overreach is bad, period.
Judges, prosecutors, and the supermajority of law enforcement agents manage to do their jobs with their faces uncovered. ICE agents could too. Doxxing ICE agents is illegal and prosecuting people who do that is almost a bipartisan slam dunk. It would be especially bipartisan if ICE didn't make themselves such easy targets by acting like NKVD-wannabes. Most Americans don't like the current immigration situation. So make ICE not maximally shit looking, and then let the Democratic leadership alienate themselves protesting something Americans like, instead of currently, where Americans are starting to dislike ICE.
Further, the actions of ICE are WILDLY UNDERMINED by the fact the administration is EXPLICITLY SAYING they won't go after farm or hotel labour (why hotels?????) If they were serious about immigrants, they'd go after them where they were in large concentrations. They'd use their political capital to push e-verify. They'd go after the AMERICAN CITIZENS WHO PAY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AMERICAN DOLLARS. But they aren't, because they don't want to. This massively undermines the legitimacy of ICE.
They made ICE maximally inflammatory, and then you act suprised the Dems are inflamed? This is the sibling equivalent of winding up your little brother then acting suprised when he tries to kick you in the nuts. You'd get a lot more parental (american people) sympathy if you weren't obviously trying to piss him off and were actually doing the thing you said is your goal, because right now it just looks like you're trying to piss him off and don't care about the goal.
I would prefer 0 montages posted by law enforcement to tiktok, to be clear
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