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Throwing in a quick post because I'm surprised it hasn't been discussed here (unless I missed it!), Mayor Brandon Johnson of Chicago sets up "ICE-free zones" in Chicago.
This comes on the heels of Trump sending in the national guard after Chicago PD apparently wouldn't help ICE agents under attack. I haven't read all the stuff about this scenario, but on the surface level it seems pretty bad, I have to say.
There's a video clip where that mayor is saying that Republicans want a "redo of the Civil War," amongst other incredibly inflammatory things. The Governor of Illinois is apparently backing the mayor up.
This refusal to help ICE and even outright claim that you're fighting a war with them I mean... I suppose Democrats have been doing it for a while. This seems... bad. I mean sure you can sugarcoat it and point to legal statues and such, but fundamentally if the local governments of these places are going to agitate so directly against the President, I can't blame Trump for sending in the national guard.
Obviously with the two party system we have a line and such, but man, it's a shame that our politicians have fully embraced the heat-over-light dynamics of the culture war, to the point where they really are teetering on the brink of starting a civil war. Not the social media fear-obsessed "civil war" people have been saying has already started, but real national guard vs. local pd or state military type open warfare. I just don't understand going this far, unless the Mayor of Chicago thinks that he can get away with it and Trump will back down.
Even then, brinksmanship of this type seems totally insane!
I suppose Newsom in CA has been doing it too, now that I mention it. Sigh. I hope that we can right this ship because man, I do not want to have to fight in a civil war I have to say. Having studied history, it's a lot more horrible than you might think.
I don't understand why everyone is beating around the bush (actually I do, it's partisanship, or in rationalist speak "in-group bias").
ICE's mission obviously isn't a bad mission, and most people agree with the overall goal.
ICE's conduct is obviously not good, especially in an American context, which is a country that (ideally) has a stronger aversion to government overreach than most.
"Muh masks" seems to have become a meme here, but it's real. You're Americans, why are you okay being cucked by your government. Masked non-uniformed men are stuffing people into vans. Not just that, they're sending them to third world prisons??? That's insane. Obviously it's nowhere near as bad as the NKVD, but why are you okay taking even a step in that direction? What if the Democrats spin up the "super ATF" who start kidnapping people who fuck up their gun paperwork into unmarked vans to be sent to Romania? Government overreach is bad, period.
Judges, prosecutors, and the supermajority of law enforcement agents manage to do their jobs with their faces uncovered. ICE agents could too. Doxxing ICE agents is illegal and prosecuting people who do that is almost a bipartisan slam dunk. It would be especially bipartisan if ICE didn't make themselves such easy targets by acting like NKVD-wannabes. Most Americans don't like the current immigration situation. So make ICE not maximally shit looking, and then let the Democratic leadership alienate themselves protesting something Americans like, instead of currently, where Americans are starting to dislike ICE.
Further, the actions of ICE are WILDLY UNDERMINED by the fact the administration is EXPLICITLY SAYING they won't go after farm or hotel labour (why hotels?????) If they were serious about immigrants, they'd go after them where they were in large concentrations. They'd use their political capital to push e-verify. They'd go after the AMERICAN CITIZENS WHO PAY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AMERICAN DOLLARS. But they aren't, because they don't want to. This massively undermines the legitimacy of ICE.
They made ICE maximally inflammatory, and then you act suprised the Dems are inflamed? This is the sibling equivalent of winding up your little brother then acting suprised when he tries to kick you in the nuts. You'd get a lot more parental (american people) sympathy if you weren't obviously trying to piss him off and were actually doing the thing you said is your goal, because right now it just looks like you're trying to piss him off and don't care about the goal.
I made a comment here that broadly addresses some of these points you're making.
The gamble here is that the optics will have significant utility in deterring other potential migrants. The short term results suggest that it is effective.
We know the potential of the online left to find, doxx, and terrorize people. It's not even up for debate. They will terrorize ICE agents' families. The tools and collective effort that anti-ICE and anti-Trumpers have at their disposal when it comes to identifying, locating and terrorizing these people is massive, and it will be an all-hands-on-deck effort. To them, they would be doxxing Nazis, so it would be for a noble cause.
I don't think you appreciate how little "Dems being inflamed" matters anymore. It's not because I, or many other middle right people want to do that. Some do, but I don't want that. That's not the goal for me. It has just become utterly impossible to not inflame Democrats at every stop. Everything Republicans do is racist or fascist, so it doesn't matter. It reminds me of this meme. It may come off as cheesy, but it is nonetheless a great way to convey what the non-left is up against every time they do anything that deviates from kit glove treatment of nonwhites or any "marginalized" community.
they don't do this to cops, even during the 2020 summer of love
just arrest people who do this
if ICE was in any way sympathetic to the median American, doxxing them would make the Dems look terrible, and prosecuting them would make Republicans look great. If half the country is fine with them getting doxxed, you have fucked up massively, and only have yourself to blame.
Ain't gonna happen. Online doxxing mobs are not subject to prosecution. I mean as a practical matter. Even if counterfactually there was a will to prosecute, the feds couldn't get almost all of the online mob.
You don't need to get almost all. You just need to make it clear that any one of them can go to the slammer for doing the wrong thing on the public internet. That shouldn't be hard. People go to jail for CP and doxxing is inherently easier to catch.
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Here's a study out of Canada about doxxing officers.
You could arrest someone who is doing something illegal sure. How many things could you think of right now that are technically legal but that would really stress someone out after they know they're identity as ICE agent has been revealed? I know I can think of probably a handful.
The perception from the left is that they are not sympathetic, so this point is moot before you even begin to explain the rest of it.
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If Democrats were willing to do this, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. Regular criminal enforcement was left by the wayside along with immigration enforcement.
I wish we would just arrest people. Democrats have taught me, very thoroughly, that they don't want that, either.
Are we not arresting people? There have been a few stories lately (the first to come to mind: Decarlos Brown Jr.'s 14 prior arrests) that suggest that the problem is later in the pipeline.
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