I’ll quote a 2011 blog post from an Australian Catholic social conservative author who is also critical of the Manosphere:
This is by no means a Catholic critique at all. There are two completely different ways of how modern feminism or even modern thinking breaks down intersexual relationships. The first one is that the basis of Catholic teaching is not some maturity or anything like that, our morality is Virtue Based. Both men and women should strive to be virtuous: humble instead of prideful, chaste instead of lustful, generous instead of greedy, kind instead of jealous, balanced in moderation instead of gluttonous, patient instead of wrathful, diligent instead of slothful. Above all these virtues we have Christian love, caritas as guiding principle. There are of course other virtues such as courage or wisdom which are subsided in there. The point is that Christian ethics is Virtue Ethics, it is not utilitarianism or harm reductionism - it is centered around personal virtues related to deification and individual relationship toward God and other people.
Catholic anthropology follows this in sacraments. In baptism, a child is introduced into a community where mother, father, godfather and godmother take responsibility to educate the child toward these virtues in form of caretakers utilizing methods of discipline and consistency to teach the child. This results in first communion around age of 7 o 8, this tracks the ability to discern between good and evil, the child is capable of sacrament of confession and to decide on what is good and evil. From there there is the period of theological grounding for child's decision making, the parents are there as teachers with the child having more autonomy to explore these realities. The child is a catechumen and this period ends around age of 15-16, where he is considered and adult but still to be mentored by other people, including parents and the community.
Now the point is that in terms of maturity, by age of 16 you as a Catholic should be fully aware of what is Christian moral teaching, what are vices and virtues and live you life accordingly. There is no eternal "kid" mentality where somebody can be 28 and still "exploring" as some forever university student, it is preposterous. You can be 17 or 18 years old and preparing yourself for marriage and taking care of children in the same loop. Maturity is not about wealth, "responsibility" in terms of being a manager of team of 50 people or anything like that. While this is of course one way to grow, it is by no means implied in catholic teaching. You are mature as long as you posses ability to discern good and evil and as soon as adult Christian you know the doctrine to live virtuous life. The catholic teaching of responsibility is stemming from subsidiarity, by age 15-16 you are fully capable of thinking and managing yourself, and you are preparing to take care of your closest family such as husband/wife and even children and whole community. But this is reciprocal, The Church is proper way to live Christian life and the community is helping everybody till their last days. The process of deification is a lifelong process where the whole community including your priest is helping you in this endeavor.
When Hymnowitz points to the Star Wards nerds, all I can think of is the "mature" female SATC equivalents. I admit that men sitting in mom's basement jerking off to online porn are pretty shallow, but so are the women who spend their lives shopping for bags, clothes whilst riding the carosel waiting for the enabling supplicant whom will provide them with lifestyle to which they are accustomed.
That is not lack of maturity, these young adults are mature enough to have capacity to understand what is going on. It is lack of virtue. You can be 80 year old alcoholic bum jerking off on your pissed matrass doing stupid shit. We do not think that such a person did not mature, they are just lacking virtues.
georgioz
15hr ago
I am reminded of the usual reddit "Am I the Asshole" threads. What usually happens is that in any given story everybody is an asshole in there. It ties to a very good article of jugaad ethics, which uses the Indian word of tying the new to the old one, such as having a donkey or a bull trying to tow a modern car. This is what happens when you tear down Chesterton fence and observe the aftermath.
What I see lately is percolation of various worldviews into ethical system informing morality, which ultimately has reach toward law as law is "minimum of morals". One of them is the overarching result of various forms of physicalism - there is no free will, we are all just atoms in motion, sometimes imbued by various outside sources and "systems" of oppression. So a psychopath murdering her own children has no true agency - it is all failure of systems that did not provide help. And at the same time there is visceral need to put some personal blame somewhere, there has to be some agents - even unwitting ones - perpetuating some systems. Like in this example - we are talking about minutiae of what constitutes a "consent" and who has ability to clam systematic influence as opposed to agency.
It is a car crash waiting to happen, where some people are for the first time confronted with their worldviews and moral presuppositions colliding with reality. If anything, it is fascinating to watch.
I think it is quite the opposite. The Culture War is more alive than ever. There still are woke progressives although they want to rebrand to Woke 2.0 silently distancing themselves from some of the more stupid stuff, but it is still there only bubbling beneath the surface. You have revival of Christianity either in form of true conversion but also silently in form of "cultural Christianity". You have other stuff especially in Europe with regards to rising popularity of Mumdani style socialism, you have literal Islamists popping up more often as Muslims especially in Europe get more power.
In terms of policies you have age old stuff like immigration or wars. But there are various interesting issues rising up, like for instance the gender wars stemming from huge divergence of voting patterns between men and women which are driven by completely different worldviews as attested by Lindsay Clancy trial. You have Palestine vs Israel conflict creating strange bedfellows between progressives, Islamists and alt-right agreeing on who is the source of all evil in the West.
To me it seems not at all clear which ethos and ideology or culture will rein in let's say 20 years. Will it be the same GloboHomo technocratic coalition trying to hold the post war liberal consensus as outlined in official UN documents such as 17 Sustainable Development Goals? Will it be some sort of right wing conservative nationalist coalition? Will it be rationalist technobros developing AI overlord who will rule with iron hand of utilitarianism where everybody is hooked on some sort of UBI and robot hookers? Will it be some sort of South African style of failed country split in tribal conflict over diminishing resources in the middle of failed AI dystopia and demographic crisis?
georgioz
1d ago
That, or as the comment from the gold mine of youtube comment section put it more succintly:
She went to the Zuckerberg school for human emotions
Thanks for the link. The comment section is gold, I really liked this one:
"It took me a really long time to be able to cry on command... but check this out" single tear rolls down cheek
Or how the other comment put it:
She almost shit herself producing that teardrop
I am still laughing my ass off over it, a real goldmine in there. Also I unironically think that we may be witnessing a birth of a new hero for Lindsay Clancy's gaggle of lunatics. I'd not be surprised if a few years down the road Holmes is AOCs chosen for vice-president or something like that.
Underdetermination is exactly why reversing stupidity doesn’t get you intelligence.
I agree, that is why I wrote:
Also I agree that reverse stupidity is not intelligence, but stupidity is at least a hint of lack of intelligence.
I also agree, I'd say that in my Christian worldview there is not only lack of ontological substance of evil but also of a lie, Steresis aletheias. There is infinite way of how to be wrong, but only one way to be correct in my theology. In other theologies there is only infinite ways of being wrong without any metaphysicaly objective way of aiming toward truth, as this objective truth does not even exist.
That gets you back to a state of Cartesian doubt
Carthesian doubt was not deep enough. He did not doubt time or language for instance. His cogito ergo sum should in proper sceptical tradition be something like sgdsjvfdngfd lshgfk h lsng, only even more stupid, as he should doubt meaning of very language.
The most information you can get by rejecting paradigms is zero.
This cannot be true as there should be way to doubt your paradigmatical grounds, otherwise it is just pure dogma. In other words you are just asserting grounds of your paradigm as correct without any justification, thus basically creating a new fairy tale.
I can give a steelman position to the OP argument. I can tie it to my older post about theology, which is paradigmatic disjunction. There is famous Quine proof of Underdetermination of Scientific Theory, meaning that data are not neutral towards underlying paradigm and interpretation. Therefore you do not just have The Science™, it completely relies on underlying paradigms that select what to study, how to formulate hypothesis, how to formulate and propose theories that explain data which are dependent on presuppositions.
So in the end it is just a pure conflict theory. There is no absolute The Science™, all science is instantiation of their underlying theology and paradigm onto data. Be it Socialist Science, Scholastic Christian Science, Progressive Science or even Rationalist Yudkowskian Science. In that sense the OP just hates the Progressive Science with its own paradigmatic blind spots and correctly identifies it as a Conflict Theory with Lab Leak being one of the example. Even more prominent one was the petition of The Scientists™ to allow BLM protests in the middle of pandemic as they consider racism as greater threat than COVID-19.
Also I agree that reverse stupidity is not intelligence, but stupidity is at least a hint of lack of intelligence. Reverse of stupidity of let's say paranormal science is not intelligence, but it is not a reason not to dismiss it.
What victim. A moron who lets some random chick snort ketamine from his dick before gangbanging her with his 3 equally moronic friends? I am sorry that I do not have much sympathy for such a victim. Neither do I have sympathy for said chick who voluntarily went into such a situation. I am thinking of any of them as some victims.
Like I said, everybody is an asshole in this story. Or am I supposed to be male or female feminist who thinks of a college men and women like that as "kids having fun" and at the same time as unthinking victims of systems of oppression who are just bunch of atoms in motion inevitably dancing to the tune of power structure of Rothchilds, GloboHomo power brokers and TechBros who beamed subliminal messages about ketamine orgies into their empty heads via TikTok? I dont think so.
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