magicalkittycat
27d ago
All this alarm about Nazis and no attempt to demonstrate any policy position these supposed "Nazis" hold that would make them actual Nazis.
Holocaust denial does not make you a Nazi.
Making edgy jokes does not make you a Nazi.
Thinking Hitler did some good things (or at the very least for the German people) does not make you a Nazi.
Ok sure lets call them "Razis" then if you don't think they should be called Nazis. Let's amend a question to be "is there a rise of "Razis" who openly praise Hitler, deny the holocaust, and say antisemitic things like Jews can't be trusted then?"
magicalkittycat
27d ago
You know I get like 30+ replies every time I check back here? I do not have the time in my busy life to read every single part of every single comment, yet alone reply to them all. I glance through and pick a few.
For what it's worth, I don't think you're Darwin - Darwin at least tried.
Meaningless, I don't know who that is so it's not worth anything.
If you're trying to imply that I'm some other poster for disagreement then that just seems odd. Do you not think there are lots of people in the world who don't share 100% of every belief this site holds? Is TheMotte really such a circlejerk that voicing major disagreements is seen as an oddity only done by a few?
magicalkittycat
27d ago
but he/she is certainly causing issues, and that's a problem by itself.
What issues am I causing?
magicalkittycat
27d ago
Because rule of law was specifically designed to deal with the problem of men's anti-social behavior.
Yeah I'd agree. Women in general tend to be peaceful (as we can see by crime rates around the world) and even commit non violent crimes less often. The rule of law came about specifically as a way to address irrational and emotional men who get into fights with each other, steal, drunk drive, or do other insane behavior. Even in terrorist zones like the middle east, women are basically considered at the level of young children for likelyhood being non combatants. We basically never have to worry about a female extremist, despite them still being half the population. It's up to 90:10 ratio.
magicalkittycat
27d ago
Preferring literal Hitler brain-rot over leftist brain-rot doesn't mean that the person is either into Hitlerism or Nazism.
Biden was a terrible president, but if you'd have rather have Hitler over him then yeah, you probably are into Hitlerism. The average American doesn't feel that way.
magicalkittycat
27d ago
Go ahead, explain how this isn't pro nazi
Bring on the nazis. I'd rather have literal Hitler
If you're asking people to gaslight themselves, it never works. You get the loyalists to close their eyes sure, but the loyalists aren't the ones who need to close their eyes. You want the moderates and normies to side with you.
This is what Ben Shapiro is talking about. Rallying around the nazis is not just a bad idea to begin with (because the Nazis are bad to begin with), but also the normies don't like Nazis and it's a stupid political idea to actively associate yourself with widely unpopular statements like that. The progressives lost because they embraced their radical wing, why make the same mistake?
magicalkittycat
27d ago
You know he is very literally not a republican, right?
Did I say he was?
I said that it's just more evidence of growing Hitlerism and Nazism which is what "Bring on the nazis. I'd rather have literal Hitler" is.
magicalkittycat
27d ago
It seems to me any theory about rule of law or emotions regarding feminization/masculinization needs to contend with that men commit something like 80 to 90% of violent crime and the large majority of crime in general, and engage in many passionate irrational behaviors statistically more often.
Hearing a story about a woman involved in a shooting during a rage road incident, or a young girl shooting up a school, or gang activity are unicorn events. And it can't just be explained away as women being physically weaker, because guns are an incredible equalizer and if that was the only thing then we would see more women shooting at men as it's more needed for them to use violence (where as men can just use physical strength against women and don't need a gun). Instead, they opt out of it to begin with.Even across racial lines, black women commit less crime than any race of men.
Speaking of road rage from before which gender is more likely to drive dangerously because they're too impatient over a few seconds/few minutes of travel time? Not the women and American men (56%) drunk drive far more than women (29%) do and if you think that's self reporting bias, actual crime statistics for DUIs and studies into BAC levels would suggest men are might be even worse than that, possibly a 4:1 level.
Men are twice as likely to gamble, more likely to play the lottery, getting addicted to sports betting now, and in general make other similar unwise and irrational financial choices more than women do. Men are more likely to do drugs and drink lots of alcohol. While obesity rates are similar, general overweightness is, you guessed it, skewed quite a bit more towards men. Men are even more emotional about even stereotypical "woman" things like relationship breakups if the studies on this are accurate.
The buff muscle packed gang member prisoners are like the peak of many "masculinity" stereotypes, and they're all emotional imbeciles lacking so much thought that they found themselves in jail. And the more "male coded" a young boy is in much of black culture, the more likely they ain't getting far in life.
If rule of law is so masculine, why do men keep breaking it while women follow the rules all around the world? If rationality is so masculine, why do men keep gambling away their money, driving drunk and get fat? And if they're more dedicated to truth then how do you explain male dominated politics being so untruthful and so corrupt?
You're right that alone isn't much but my other comment showing his long history in conservative spaces, including pointing out he was described as a friend by JD Vance a few years ago makes for a strong case.
nor does it prove history in right wing spaces.
Yeah, but his time writing for Project 2025, multiple appearances on Tucker Carlson, etc does. I suppose I should have written "Richard Hanania (Author of the Origins of Woke, prior Trump voter, Tucker Carlson guest, Project 2025 writer, former friend of JD Vance, describes himself as "part of the original alt-right 1.0.") and whatever else proof there is, but I figured that would be getting silly.
magicalkittycat
28d ago
Bring on the nazis. I'd rather have literal Hitler spread his brain-rot than give the left another day to spread theirs.
This is what they said. I didn't write this, they did. I don't think you're gonna convince me that this isn't pro Nazi rhetoric, I'm typically opposed to calling things "gaslighting" or "telling me to ignore what is in front of my eyes" or something, but I don't see any serious argument that "bring on the Nazis, I'd rather have Hitler than the left" is anything other than a pro Nazi sentiment. Unless he's not being serious in the comment in which case whoops!
magicalkittycat
28d ago
I notice no rebuttal on the other points?
Go see other comments I've written on this replying to similar points. That's what I've been told to do by mods before instead of reposting the same thing over and over in response to different users, even if it's a rebuttal to the same argument from those users. There's a lot of people trying to make these similar arguments so if you want to know my views, you'll have to check out the prior responses from me.
magicalkittycat
28d ago
He promoted Trump over Harris, wrote a whole book on being anti-woke, contributed to the Heritage Foundation's project 2025, was called a friend by JD Vance back in 2021, and was on Tucker Carlson Tonight twice
Hanania has a very well established right wing conservative history. Maybe you think he no longer counts, but that just makes him, the "man whose tweets helped kill DEI" as some have referred to him as before, an example of someone who got pushed away.
magicalkittycat
28d ago
To give the other side of the coin it’s due, Nick Fuentes and Myron Gaines are not super influential outside of far far right politics.
Gaines I'd accept given some of the comments of "who?" and he is a relatively new influencer (although 1.5 million in a few years would be evidence of the Nazism growing) but Fuentes seems to be pretty well known in political communities.
Tucker is still sorta mainstream, though he’s not really on public airwaves or mainstream cable.
He runs one of the most popular podcasts in the US! Sometimes, as recent as last year, he has even had more than Joe Rogan
So it might not be "mainstream" by some restrictive definitions but there is a lot of momentum here!
magicalkittycat
28d ago
Honestly, yeah. Those are signals of tribal allegiance - signals of belonging to the right-wing vanguard. Nobody really gives a shit about in how far the Holocaust really happened,
That doesn't seem to match the behavior and words of conservative influencers like Ben Shapiro, Seth Dillon, EW Erickson, Dinesh D'Souza etc unless your argument is that even the conservatives who claim to be against Nazism are lying and don't actually care.
Very pessimistic view of modern conservativism IMO. I disagree with it, I think most conservatives still are opposed to neonazism. But I suppose I can't prove they aren't all lying about it.
magicalkittycat
28d ago
I'm asking for clarification. He literally said
"I might as well be one" is understandable to him.
This is basically saying "I am a Nazi" but of course in good faith I assume that the large majority of people I interact with are not Nazis. I suppose I could interact in bad faith and just assume he literally means it and has embraced Nazism if you prefer.
magicalkittycat
28d ago
I agree.
Neither the Hamas left side or the neonazi right side seem to be good spaces for Jews. They are safer with non violent moderates of any belief than the violence loving bigoted extremists even on "their own side"
magicalkittycat
28d ago
you just can’t pretend like this is a massive problem on the right when in the last six months, there have been multiple left‑aligned incidents that are as bad or worse.
As the meme goes, porque no los dos? In fact antisemitism is one of the things often used for Horseshoe theory, so the idea that it could be a major issue on the right too doesn't contradict any claims that it's also an issue on the left.
magicalkittycat
28d ago
Look just because Nick Fuentes or Candace Owens denies the Holocaust, or Tucker Carlson "keeps asking questions" about if it was really that bad or because Myron Gaines says he really likes Hitler and denounces the "woke Jews", it doesn't mean all conservatives are to be blamed and should be denounced as Nazis.
Tons of established right wing names like EWErickson, Seth Dillon, Ben Shapiro, Hanania, Dinesh D'Souza, etc have called out the growing nazi problem in various ways. They don't deserve blame for a thing they didn't do and for things they don't believe just because others tangently related do.
magicalkittycat
28d ago
Hey you can look them up for yourself and see that stuff like Torba and Myron Gaine's posts are literally still there on X.
magicalkittycat
28d ago
You are trolling. A faux-naive/faux-serious description of "Richard Hanania, writer of 'The Origins of Woke'" could be a little flourish one time, twice makes it pretty obvious you're trying to build a schtick.
It's a great way to establish that these aren't "leftist concern trolls" but conservative aligned names with proven history in right wing spaces. Hanania, Ben Shapiro, Seth Dillon, etc are all established conservative leaning names who are against this rising Nazi radicalism.
magicalkittycat
28d ago
I could argue the semantics of "Nazi" but given that the term has almost entirely lost relevance in the modern day and is equivalent to "people on a political side I don't like" as pointed out by others in this thread, let's take the bog standard meat and potatoes definition: members of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei who held political dominance and control in Germany and whose expansionist policies, among other things, led to the outbreak of the European chunk of World War 2.
Yes if you pick highly restrictive definition and choose to not include things like "People who literally call themselves Nazis" like Mark Robinson, or "People who are openly saying Hitler was good" like Gaines then yeah, it's gonna look really silly.
Nazis aren't real in 2025. You need to more precisely define what you mean. A guy waving a Soviet flag in 2025 isn't a Bolshevik, he's a progressive.
This was pretty specific. People who say themselves that they are Nazis or openly praise Hitler like Myron Gaines, or those who engage in blatant and strong Nazi apologetics such as Holocaust denialism like Fuentes or Carlson.
All the defections have already happened. Nobody on the right cares about "fighting off Nazi accusations from the left." Why should we fight any accusation from the left? Why not just lean into it while mocking the left and winking to the audience? That seems to be working.
There are! I even linked some prominent conservatives who are opposed to it. Your "defense" apparently being "actually no one on the right cares about neonazism and hitlerism" seems like a very negative view of right wingers and conservatives. There's plenty of anti Nazi conservatives like Dinesh D'Souza and Seth Dillon. And I showed Ben Shapiro's argument of how apologizing and defending and empowering radicals hurt the left and why he doesn't think it's good to do on the right now. I'm sorry if you have such a negative view of modern conservativism that you can't imagine them without the rising Nazism, but there are tons of perfectly fine ordinary non antisemitic right wingers around.
magicalkittycat
28d ago
There have already been plenty of posts pointing out that the Young Republicans chat is not pro-Nazi
Even if we don't count it as "Nazi" despite the constant jokes, they were making a bunch of antisemitic remarks.
That reflects on the Democrats, who support the Palestinians and who Muslims are allied with, not on "conservatism".
But he's also a conservative who has associated with other conservatives like Nick Fuentes and Sneako. He's worn Trump sweaters and said "It's Trump 2024 or this country is going down the toilet" and "Everybody's got to go out there and fucking vote for Trump, especially if you live in Florida. Bro, he is the last stand we got, man".
And the swastika flag, being nonobvious, was probably planted there to discredit Taylor.
Possible! Taylor at least called it out, so let's hope they didn't notice and some staffer just happened to use the US flag with a secret swatiska instead of the tons of normal flags they would have access to.
magicalkittycat
28d ago
...but given the last decades, I really don't care anymore. Bring on the nazis. I'd rather have literal Hitler spread his brain-rot than give the left another day to spread theirs.
Well add another to the pile of evidence that Hitlerism and Nazism is growing.
I have no idea who that is lol so I don't think so.
As the saying goes, onus probandi, the burden of proof is on the speaker. If people wanna make shit up, they can do that. They can provide evidence if they actually want to be believed. I don't have any way to prove I'm not something compared to asinine "it came to me in a dream" tier evidence.
Again I don't know who that is so it's not only literally a worthless comparison but does the opposite of "Wow is this place so opposed to disagreement that they just accuse everyone of being a secret bad faith troll?"
More options
Context Copy link