The same people absolutely believe discrimination occurs in culture/education/training/etc. If I cited an article showing that e.g. childhood participation in private music lessons for orchestral instruments had a race skew (which it does), would they be surprised? I really don't think so. Do they believe that lessons and practice just... don't matter? That's the only way I can think of to justify the notion that a fair meritocratic test of orchestra applicants wouldn't show a similar skew even assuming uniform innate capacity and interest.
The usual justification I hear is something you're brushing briefly against here: interest. What DEI proponents think is that the underrepresented minorities are not taking private music lessons for orchestral instruments because they don't feel welcome or invited in those fields. They feel it's a white or asian thing, not for them. Culturally, it's less of a thing they're likely to be introduced to.
So to steelman the DEI side here (which I must state I disagree with, but it still deserves steelmanning), minority enrollement in these activities requires bootstrapping; get a generation of these under-represented minorities in there or two by putting your thumb on the scale if necessary, hype the fuck out of them, and hopefully the next generation of the under-represented minority will be inspired by the DEI hires, will get on the pipeline early and the minority will not be under-represented anymore and you won't need to put your thumb on the scale.
I don't think it has ever worked, but I think that's the general idea.
*EDIT: To clarify why I don't think it ever works, is because it's extremely conceited. You have to assume that people are dumb and won't notice that your thumb is on the scale, and won't notice that the DEI hires are worse than the meritocratic ones. Which has a tendancy to backfire, if all the pro/famous under-represented minority athletes of a specific sport, or orchestral musicians are noticeably worse, it's likely to reinforce the idea that there is something innate with the group that makes them worse at that activity. Which would be worse than having only a few less-than-representative numbers but at least they perform to the same standard as others, which doesn't damage the "interest gap" potential explanation and won't discourage the people who do have the interest.
pigeonburger
1d ago
I guess I should specify what I mean by trolling here; it's true that outside of the "military intervention" aspect Trump does some trolling too, like the "51st state", calling the Canadian Prime Minister "Governor", etc... I'm guessing he says that because he finds it funny. I find it funny too. And the performative pearl clutching he sees in return is funny too. But the interest is genuine.
pigeonburger
1d ago
The thing is that last year, I saw multiple right wingers say that the Canada stuff and the Greenland stuff was all just trolling, not serious.
I don't recall hearing or saying that; the interest is genuine and has always been genuine. Canada is not serious in the sense that the possibility is and was extremely remote, but if the US sees the opportunity, I think any president, not just Trump, would try to bring Canada in. It'd be a massive legacy setting achievement. Other presidents haven't brought it up, but either Trump has a different idea of what is or isn't realistic, or thinks what you never ask, you never get. Greenland was a strategic interest of US military, one of their "it would be nice-to-have it" things that no one thought was possible. Anyone who told you that Trump wasn't serious about Greenland probably never knew that the US' been trying to buy it since the 19th century. And it turns out probably still isn't possible, but maybe Trump will get some additional concessions for his military bases there, we'll see.
The part that is the trolling has always been the military intervention.
pigeonburger
1d ago
I think the main difference is how would you even argue for or against gay marriage? The difference of opinion on it and topics like it are on a different level than a debate. It is closer to a conflict theory topic than mistake theory. Religious conservatives don't argue against it because they agree that gays should be able to marry but disagree that the government should be the one to do it; they don't think gays should be able to marry, at least not in the same sense as traditional marriages, and usually more broadly.
Housing affordability, healthcare, education, etc... Are more mistake theory. There is a general agreement on both sides that it would be good if housing, education and healthcare were more affordable and higher quality. Both sides have the same goal, but the strategy to get there are at odds, usually some sort of opposition between government intervention vs free enterprise and markets.
pigeonburger
2d ago
Also I think maybe older people have the idea that anime is more high-brow than it is?
I think it's one of these midwit meme distribution. Glug thinks cartoons are low-brow childish entertainment, midwit thinks since it's not aimed at kids it's adult and somewhat sophisticated. Genius knows it's mostly endless rehash of tropes comfortable to its audience.
pigeonburger
3d ago
Yes, and if you take into account empty nesters, it's not that atypical for older people to move from a house sized for a family with 2+ kids to a smaller house, to a condo or an apartment that requires less upkeep work and, as a result of the downsizing you mentionned, frees up money for retirement.
pigeonburger
4d ago
I can understand the collateral for debt argument, but I don't know how common that is, as I am a peasant who avoids debt whenever I can. Maybe somebody else here can fill in the gaps on this one.
If I was in DINK couple, or an irresponsible parent, a reverse mortgage would be very tempting; after all, if I don't have anyone I want to leave my wealth to, what do I care if the bank takes it after I die?
pigeonburger
4d ago
Is the Aging Wheels guy red coded? I mean, he's got the homesteading stuff going on, but I never got that impression. He loves quirky european cars, electric cars, etc...
pigeonburger
4d ago
Coming here from the Quality Contribution thread, I have to concur. America still has a strong positive, but maybe not explicit halo for europeans, at least for working class europeans. My (Spanish) wife and I went to visit New-York in december and my in-laws wanted as souvenirs Statue of Liberty keychains and (more tellingly) american 1$ bills. They have put these bills in their wallets and phone cases as good luck charms. This is despite them also watching the news daily and absorbing all the anti-american signaling. I don't think a country's smallest denomination bill becomes a good luck charm for foreigners without at least unconscious good vibes being associated with it.
pigeonburger
4d ago
As a long time watcher and patreon supporter of his, I'm afraid to watch that video.
It was obvious for years he was chafing at the thought of not being able to discuss politics without risking a large portion of his viewership, but it seems the restraints are gone now.
Sentence, ideally no. Arrest, yes, though the bar is high. Suspect/investigate, all the time.
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