rudig
26d ago
People like Theo Von and Marjorie Taylor Greene absolutely come off as sympathetic to Palestinians, definitively more than most democrat politicians. Even Tucker seems supportive of the pro-Palestinian struggle.
rudig
26d ago
Support for Israel has taken a nose dive in every group except republicans over 50. If you think this is all due to Third Worlders I dont know what to tell you. People are increasingly seing the behavior of Israel and being put off by it.
rudig
26d ago
The control is because they can easily block it, and by not doing so so far they have shown restraint.
Except it is probably more complicated given that Israel is an ally
this is something people dont want and its not just leftist, but its increasingly common to believe the US relationship with Israel is more beneficial to Israel than vice versa. The US is such a loyal and unconditional ally to Israel due to the influence of the Israel lobby and zionists.
[https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2026/4/20/voters-in-multiple-states-say-iran-war-benefits-israel-and-that-us-military-aid-to-the-country-should-be-halted](This is just one recent poll)
The republicans might be going through a generational loss in the Midterms due to how unpopular the war in Iran and subsequent cost of living crises will be. Everything they fought for might be evaporated, and there might be a generational rift in the party that might upend all power constellations. Democrats arent much better, but are probably likely to benefit from not being the ones who
Besides many European countries stood up to their American ally during the Iraq war and dont think anyone looks back at that and thinks that was a bad thing?
I am also for instance pissed that there is any help also sent to Gaza. I do not want to have anything to do with that awful place, it is not my responsibility. Let Egyptians and Saudis and other neighbors do that part. This is fine. Are you American? Does your country send substantial aid to Gaza?
I am horrified by too many things, such as genocide in Darfur, and the overall region of Sahel and other things.
Interesting, do you want to increase aid to Darfur? Would you vote for a politician who took money from a pro-Janjaweed group and defended their actions?
I am curious. None of your leftie pro-Palestine friends ever used the term colonizer, colonized or colonialism in relation to this shit?
The term colonization is absolutely used about the West Bank and I dont see a problem with that. But again you overestimating the degree to which discourse is about ideology. Most people are just upset about Israels behavior and the suffering of innocents in Palestine.
rudig
26d ago
If youre land is already being illegally occupied by Israel I dont think you can in any way be accused of attacking first.
How exactly is Iran's land being occupied by Israel, illegally or not
Israel is illegally occupying and settling Palestinian and Syrian land while bombing them and claiming selfdefence.
Iran has been relentlessly and aggressively attacking Israel for many years.
Israel and the US staged a massive bombing campaign against Iran last year, and got barely any attack back. Iran has shown quite a bit of restrain vis-a-vis Israel actually.
Im not going to reply to anymore of your posts because there is nothing Israel do that you will not defend or find justified, so there really is not point in this discussion.
rudig
26d ago
If youre land is already being illegally occupied by Israel I dont think you can in any way be accused of attacking first.
Well do you agree that Israel's attack against Iran was an entirely foreseeable consequence of Iran's aggressive and relentless proxy attacks against Israel over the years?
Blockading a strait that you control is very different from bombing another country in an attempt at regime change.
rudig
26d ago
I was commenting on leftists. For them Israel is yet another white supremacist western colonizer. In a sense Gaza war does not matter, the moral standard is "historical oppression" and history is unchanged - Palestinians were and always will be historically colonized and oppressed even if they clear Palestine from the river to the sea.
This is imo a strawman version of the leftist position that seems entirely derived from zionist interpretation (not saying you are a zionist, but most of your sources for this probably are). Yglesias used to openly advocate for the full ethnic cleansing of palestinians from Gaza. He is by all accounts a jewish supremacist, and frequently strawmans both the left and right anti-Israel position. But he is seeing the writings on the wall and trying to stake a position on Israel that is less repugnant for the average non jewish supremacists.
I am active in my local pro-Palestinian community. There are all walks of life here (including quite a few formerly zionist christians), but leftist dominate. The wider leftist position is quickly becoming the normie position because it is actually very defensible: "dont send money and weapons to a country full of religious nuts who believe they are justified in getting revenge on a defenceless population full of children". You honestly dont need to have any positive ideas about Palestine to reach this conclusion at all.
Most people are just horrified by Israels relentless violence towards the women and children of Palestine, and even more horrified by all the supposedly good people who are defending it. I dont think I have heard the word "historical oppression" once, and no one pretends that Palestinians are saints who can do no wrong. Nearly all advocacy is aimed at the innocent children in Gaza and excludes anyone who could possibly be a militant. Leftist have many terrible positions, but this is not one of them.
rudig
26d ago
No matter your reservations with Israel's warmongering government and support for West Bank settlers.
The people who claim to be agains this but spend 10x the amount of time complaining about antisemitism are not credible.
rudig
26d ago
Yeah I blame Israel for attacking Iran and starting this war. The Hormuz blockade was an entirely foreseeable consequence of that.
I think there was an inevitable clash between Israel and current predominant leftist culture.
People are pissed off because they are having seriously doubt about whether their elites (even the "American first" ones) are more beholden to a small minority group and a different country their own population. Both democrats and republicans (and their counterparts in Europe) are willing to throw away every value they claim to uphold, and humiliate themselves to an extreme degree in defence of this one country.
Which other group than zionist will have republicans talking about safe spaces on campus? Which other group than zionist will make democrats eager to collaborate with Donald Trumps ICE to have students homes raided on campus? Which other country than Israel will have such undying loyalty that the US ambassador (and their european labdogs) pull out of a Nagasaki peace ceremony to commemoratate the nuclear bombs on Japan, because said country was disinvited?
These are not normal behaviors. And I think its undercommunicated how much this servility towards Israel from both sides of the political spectrum is pushing people towards both antizionism and antisemittism.
rudig
26d ago
I assume members of the Israeli government count as prominent zionists? Bibi himself have accused Anthony Albanese and Macron (both die hard zionists) of antisemittism.
Not to mention the whole witch hunt against Ms Rachel that started because she mentioned Gaza (along with Congo and Sudan) in a fundraiser for save the children.
rudig
26d ago
This is an entirely bad faith reply. We have been discussing ideology, not militancy.
Another example of how the word antisemitism has lost all meaning.
Palestinians have every right to not give a shit about the feelings of jews when they critisize the founding of Israel.
rudig
26d ago
You probably havent heard someone criticizing human rights in those countries because its not controversiel and no one tries to make you lose your job or blacklist you.
Zionists first came for Ms Rachel after she mentioned Gaza in a fundraiser for save the children (where she also mentioned Sudan and Congo). She has since increased her focus on Gaza (but she also posts regularly about Sudan) because that is what people do when they are being silenced for doing something than any decent person should find entirely uncontroversial.
rudig
26d ago
I understand that anti-Zionism is not intrinsically reducible to antisemitism, and that, in theory, one could oppose the existence of Israel while harbouring no ill will towards Jews and wanting them to be safe.
It is interesting that a Palestinian whose family was ethnically cleansed by Israel in order for them to have a jewish majority, is not allowed to just be against that, but have to also assure zionists that they: "harbour no ill will against jews"
I have a feeling youre not american, because there is no way the pro-Palestinian side is the most unhinged. We literally have a congressman who tweetet: "Nuke Gaza", and a more than one senator who has said they main motivation for doing their job is helping Israel. The pro-Israel side started a multi-months harassment campaign and send death threats to a christian childrens youtuber because she mentioned Gaza in a fundraiser for Save the Children. Ackman tried to get a fellow finance guy fired because his daughter had protested Israel.
This is nothing like George Floyd, where I totally agree than republicans came out much better. The only way you would think this is if youre opinion is entirely filtered through zionist sources.
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