urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
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User ID: 226
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
16d ago
I stand corrected.
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
16d ago
In addition to the AI thing, he’s apparently getting laid recently.
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
16d ago
One of my great insights that I had as an adult is that socializing by, e.g. spending lots of periodic time with like-minded people who enjoy your company and like you for who you are and vice versa, doing activities that everyone enjoys and/or is passionate about doesn't actually lead to building meaningful connections or relationships.
I suppose this prompts the question: what does?
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
17d ago
As chance would have it, I find myself in Southern California this week (considering writing some reflections on the trip as a flyover peasant), and happened to stop by a sports bar for dinner without realizing Mexico was playing. The Mexicanity is immense. Sounded like a bomb went off when Mexico scored. Pretty fun, honestly, even if I had no idea what’s going on.
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
17d ago
You are complaining about men being manly men with other men. The straights would do it if they could. They just can't.
I'm not convinced this is the case, or that this is a full account of what male sexuality is like. You can't simply look at what gay sexual practices look like and assume this is what straight men would be like if women had more casual sex. Gay hookup culture came into existence under certain conditions (particularly ones where you had to grab whatever sex you could get because it was so rare, and could not be connected to intimacy or commitment because homosexuality was clandestine and often criminalized), and persists both because of cultural inertia and because the scripts people are handed limit what they can conceive and expect from others.
Le'ts assume you're a gay man like your brother, or perhaps someone like your brother but without his good and firm insight into what he wants. What does gay culture railroad him into? What will the men he meets on grindr/tinder with gay settings/a gay bar offer him? What will their sexual expectations be like? They're likely to be body-first, push relationships towards casual trysts rather than long-term commitment, emphasize sexual contact over emotional intimacy, and most importantly get bored of him and find someone else if he doesn't put his dick immediately on the table. Because the assumptions of gay culture are body-first, anyone who doesn't play along is presumed to be a liar or simply not that interested. And like straight men learning the Game, people are very good at picking up what is necessary to get them the intimacy they crave and contorting themselves towards it.
Inevitably obligate homosexual men under these conditions, whatever their theoretical desires, will end up having to get on their knees for this system, which they did not create and may not even meet with their aspirations. And especially if you're purely gay, the entire cultural and social system of gay culture will put every pressure on you to believe that hookup culture is liberatory and fun, while monogamy is internalized homophobia.
Like most people under social pressure, it's far psychologically easier to come to believe in the system than to stand aghast at it, especially if your sexual access becomes absolutely dependent on accepting it. The gays don't run "pray away the frigidity" camps, but like every culture this one has its own means of forcing misfits into a tight orifice.
This process has been going on for a long, long time in gay culture, while cultural movements towards restraint, safe sex, dating before fucking, or STD awareness is pattern-matched by many gay men either to dastardly heteronormativity or to Republicans calling AIDS a punishment from God, and therefore resisted.
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
17d ago
There are a lot of other alterations to children's bodies that are currently kosher, from getting a girl's ears pierced to so-called-"corrective" genital surgery on intersex infants.
I oppose them, in general, though if there are functional or discomfort reasons to perform genital surgery on intersex children I support it. I don’t like children getting their ears pierced. I saw a little boy with pierced ears today and I rolled my eyes — it’s bad enough that little girls get their ears pierced, but at least it’s common and you have the excuse of social convention.
But I also come from a family lineage where adults getting their ears pierced, tattoos, and body modification in general is… controversial. My mother getting her ears pierced as an adult was something she was worried about telling her sister. I have very conservative instincts on body modification, which liberals and most modern conservatives don’t share. Cyberpunk transhumanism is body horror to me.
My ideal society would be more unified morally and epistemically. I think lack of a social consensus and strong norms of behavior and belief are major social problems, and they cause more suffering than freedom prevents.
But I also know I’m not going to get my ideal society, and parents socially transitioning their little boy because they’re nuts is more in the category of “don’t interrupt your enemy while he’s making a mistake” territory; if you want to play pretend with your kid, okay, waste energy on that and not on raising them to be dutiful and strong. It’s your lineage.
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
21d ago
I don't know. Maybe that's true. I don't know that you could ever say I was in the incel category, but when I did feel foreveralone during college, I would have felt like a woman desiring me without having affection for me would be an insult. I was offered a friends-with-benefits arrangement and turned it down. Sex without affection is just empty, gross.
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
22d ago
I've visited the US a few weeks ago and companies seem to have been taking that excuse to put out american flag branded merch everywhere.
Part of this is simply that the 4th of July is coming up in general. Patriotic merch starts going up in US retail in May every year, like clockwork, and there’s always a lot of it.
There may be something different about this year due to the anniversary, but retail looks about the same to me on the patriotic front.
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
22d ago
I think their answer to this question would also depend a lot on whether the woman secretly loved him in a romantic sense, like it was a clandestine love affair thing, or whether it was more like prostitution or a get laid and leave every week kind of deal. I think most of the incels would choose the former, but would seriously hesitate about the latter.
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
23d ago
I think you’re both right. Porn has a lot of social and sexual downsides, which we find hard to talk about, because they’re squeezed between feminist critiques of porn (which don’t really care about practical effects on male sexuality unless they can be marshaled for critiques of objectification), religious critiques of porn (for which any objective problems are post hoc evidence for a position already held), feminist arguments in favor of porn (in which case male sexual consequences are almost irrelevant), and general male liberal arguments in favor of porn (for which any sort of critique registers as one of the above, and thus dismissed).
Porn-induced is a strong word, but certainly porn-exacerbated sexual problems when encountering a real woman are real and serious. As is what the nofappers talk about with escalating pornographic taboos, where the attraction to normal vanilla content becomes exhausted by the massive overflow of sexual novelty available in porn, leading to attraction to more taboo kink content to get off, leading to exhaustion of attraction to taboo kink content, leading to more taboo kink content just to get the same arousal…
It’s not hard to meet men who’ve never touched a person’s genitals before but their entire sexuality is organized around complex kink structures. And you can’t run before you can walk, so the young pornbrained guys are unable to comprehend vanilla sex experientially.
That said, I think tretiak is right that young guys feel like they have narrow options in terms of sex. And I’m not actually convinced that men are using porn instead of meeting women, as I think men’s desire for companionship is much more complex than just locate nearest vagina. They use porn to get off, but of course the emotional longing and the desire for intimacy and the want for someone to hold on cold winter nights still remains.
Where porn damages sexuality becomes prevalent much later, if they do meet a woman they like, where they realize they’ve seen a thousand women have sex with men, but don’t know the first thing about what they’re doing.
Introversion has something to do with it, and the internet in general, but this affects both genders, and the flip side of the young men playing video games instead of touching grass are the young women scrolling TikTok instead of touching grass. I’ve met women like that. They’re often very dateable, especially if you’re an introvert. But unless you get very lucky, you’re not going to meet them.
What your argument seems to suggest is that men aren’t meeting women as much because their hunger is satisfied by porn, but I’m not at all convinced that lonely men are that way because they’re not hungry enough. But the young men we’re talking about are simultaneously ashamed, inexperienced, overexposed, under-touched, desperate for intimacy, terrified of humiliation, and living inside a culture that offers him infinite simulacra and few bridges to reality.
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
24d ago
A reverse situation is, of course, famously Chick-fil-a. The US obviously had blue laws in many places at one point, and shopping, working, and of course drinking on the Sabbath was once a matter of social opprobrium in the Bible Belt. That Christians generally don’t do this any more is one of the signs of the decline of strict religious practice among Christians.
In medicine I’m sure scheduling like that would override religious objection even for Christian Sabbatarians, especially since, famously, Jesus directly endorsed healing on the Sabbath. Theology in general considers medical care one of the things that permits Sunday working, like rescuing your ass from the ditch (as the good book saith).
Christian Sabbatarianism, especially outside of magisterial Protestantism, has always been more flexible than Jewish Sabbatarianism, and this is an approach of Nazarean vintage.
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
24d ago
The tension is obvious enough that the Seventh Day Adventists exist as a denomination to assert that worship on Sunday is a corruption of Catholicism. In addition to their millenarianism, of course. It turns out when you accuse the entirety of Christianity of violating one of the commandments, you tend to have a pretty pessimistic view of the world.
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
25d ago
I was always familiar with this as a real thing, though nobody I knew used it. Generally dropdowns that offered honorifics would include master as an option, even in the states.
Though it is more associated with fictional British butlers in the minds of Americans.
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
26d ago
I genuinely got the ick reading the quoted post. That’s creepy. I get that people are attracted to celebrities, but we’re on the same spectrum of parasocial insanity as stalkers here.
urquan
Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?
29d ago
Daft Punk, deep cut Thomas Bangalter and Le Knight Club, Justice, Alan Braxe, Patrick Alavi, Modjo, Kavinsky, Fred Falke, Lifelike, Bob Sinclar, Stardust, Digitalism, Boys Noize, anything from Crydamoure, Georgio Moroder, Der Dritte Raum, Yuksek, Chris Malinchak, Chromeo, Parcels, Miami Horror, HOME, Donna Summer, Earth, Wind & Fire, Phoenix, Gloria Estefan, Empire of the Sun, Two Door Cinema Club, blink-182, The Beefs, Lenny Kravitz, Boney M., Bee Gees, Vitalic, Freemasons, Proux, Defender, Wolfgang Gartner.
I was in the top 0.1% of Duck Sauce listeners one year, and in the top 1% of Cerrone listeners the next year. This year I'm in the top 1% of ItaloBros and Purple Disco Machine listeners.
Lately I've been listening to Iden Kai's Galactica Airlines.
If it's not made on a computer and nothing is synthesized, I don't want to hear it.
But I've also never been to a club, not really my scene.
Ha, fair enough.
But typically the "demisexual is just normal sexual functioning" arguments are applying to women, specifically. Which is true in some ways, not true in others. I'm not inside the heads of these folks, but there's very much a difference between "sexual desire for a person" and "active willingness to have sexual contact with a person", and I understand that demisexuals claim that both of these come after familiarity. Which for me, is true for some people and not so true for others.
It's very true that many people who talk about sex a lot are also people who don't have so much of it, or have a normal amount with a normal number of partners. I know people who are... prolific, but not promiscuous. Perhaps I'm starting to grok the demisexual thing.
But I also grok where Mr. Meow is coming from here, I could see making out with someone... fairly early in getting to know them, but sex is something to build up to.
Also, wow. "I know your body's a work in progress, but one day you can look like this" is a pretty hilarious thing to tell someone you're trying to have sex with. Hard to wrap my head around what that guy was thinking with it. Is this a "Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power" negging move? Get the guy to feel insecure? I mean, it seems to kind of work on him...
The "hey, want to play games on discord?" as a bonding mechanism is definitely true-to-form here. A bargain-basement level of rizz pointed at a picky guy is pretty funny.
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