zeke5123a
14d ago
Yes I could worry about all sorts of things but that doesn’t make the worry rational. Worrying that an illegal properly removed but improperly given to a particular country is not close to improperly removing a citizen.
zeke5123a
15d ago
Except that isn’t what happened here. The guy is an illegal immigrant from ES.
zeke5123a
15d ago
This assumes we think illegal in migrants have much in the way of rights or that they are being violated.
Illegal immigrants don’t have a right to be in the US and they don’t have a right to an onerous process to remove them from the US.
zeke5123a
15d ago
Again to date Trump hasn’t ignored court rulings (though he is getting close). Yes there is the plane case but the Trump admin complied with a literal reading of the written order.
This one is interesting but as I pointed out the district judge seems to ignore the breadth of what SCOTUS said so again the Trump admin is arguably acting technically legal.
zeke5123a
15d ago
That would truly be a constitutional crisis where Art III starts basically making foreign policy decisions?
zeke5123a
15d ago
I don’t think that’s correct. He was precluded from being deported to ES. I don’t think that is the same as saying he can’t be deported but I’m not an immigration lawyer.
zeke5123a
15d ago
My source is the opinion. If you read the SCOTUS opinion closely they didn’t say the ruling required removal to the US; instead they said facilitate removal from ES and then treat the case as if he was deported to that specific country. They then said she needed to carefully draw the ruling to not be over road or transgress Art II. It screamed “write a more narrow order.”
The district judge just said yolo I was proven correct. That isn’t true.
zeke5123a
15d ago
The district court is ignoring the SCOTUS ruling so I don’t see the problem.
zeke5123a
15d ago
Which probably explains the fear—I don’t have the due process concerns for people that are factually illegals.
We can’t as a country have a massive amount of process to remove people who willfully and easily crossed the border. I guess you can’t make it really painful to be an illegal but that will just make life more difficult for people who ought to be here.
In short, some process is due illegals but I don’t think it ought to be significant.
zeke5123a
15d ago
Lol. That’s funny. Not sure if you are serious though. I like the idea of offshoring jails.
zeke5123a
15d ago
Frankly, it’d be great if we could send duly convicted violent federal inmates to El Salvador: cheaper, more pain for the inmate and therefore most just, and better deterrence.
With that said, I’ll stick with shipping a bunch of people out with limited due process. It can’t be that millions can come but it takes a hundreds of hours to deport one by one. You make a mockery of the law in that context.
zeke5123a
15d ago
Well I think everyone accepts that this particular person was here illegally and subject to deportation. The argument is on where he was supposed to removed to. That seems very different from your concern.
zeke5123a
18d ago
On the same page! The problem is the district court judge is now willfully misreading the SCOTUS opinion.
zeke5123a
19d ago
Gorsuch and to a lesser degree BK have both been generally strong against the admin state. Most conservatives, Bostock aside, have been pleased with both. ACB on the other hand…
zeke5123a
19d ago
I don’t think this is accurate. He couldn’t be removed to El Salvador. If the government returns him to the US embassy in El Salvador and then deports him to another country that would be kosher.
zeke5123a
19d ago
You stated:
“Okay ... so he was protected from removal, and ICE should not have removed him and admits so, but did so anyway due to an error.”
He was not protected from removal. He was protected from going to El Salvador; not removal per se.
zeke5123a
19d ago
I think you misread. He was subject to removal but not specifically to El Salvador. If they removed him to any other country it’d be fine.
zeke5123a
20d ago
Or that China is not the only important country from a trade perspective.
zeke5123a
21d ago
That’s the weird thing to me. I get he wants to appear willing to go to the end to get what he wants. The tit for tat with China accomplishes this. Why not with the other countries that came forward asking for a deal announcing a pause while negotiating. China gave you the perfect opportunity to make your threats real whilst giving a carrot to the others who play ball.
I think you are evil in that case. For decades ES was a dangerous place run by gangs. Bukele was able to change that so now the average person can live a normal life. People aren’t being murdered left and right. They aren’t being extorted.
It seems incontrovertible to me that life is better in ES for the average person due to Bukele’s policies. So it would seem the argument is either: (1) violating so called due process is so bad that we’d rather society be a complete disaster or (2) the very few (ie probably less than 0.1%) innocently caught in the net via the policies are worth more than having a functioning society. I think we already reject the Blackstone formula in practice and while I’m willing to tolerate some process to protect the innocent it isn’t infinite and particular facts may argue against.
Now Bukele over time may turn into a negative authoritarian and at that time if criticize him.
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