Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
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User ID: 290
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
5hr ago
It’s circumstantial evidence, but we’re reaching “Scott Peterson switching all his dating profiles to ‘single’ 12 hours before his wife went missing” levels of circumstantial evidence.
"Circumstantial evidence is occasionally very convincing, as when you find a trout in the milk, to quote Thoreau's example." --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, "The Adventure of the Noble Bachelor".
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
5hr ago
[H]ow exactly is an institution supposed to maintain credibility with the entire population?
They could start by admitting that they are capable of being wrong, and when they update their advice, not pretending that We Have Always Been At War With Eastasia.
I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken!
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
In that case, (assuming we have not discovered a method of directly measuring souls) we would have to examine their capabilities to make a determination.
(Some have hypothesised that the Pirahã might be such a population. Sometimes I wonder how Pokó's daughter would have grown up had she been adopted by a Brasilian family.
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
Genitals and reproductive systems are not a resource, and making women's survival contingent on marriage has often given abusive men the ability to inflict terrible suffering on them.
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
Being expected to contribute to your neighbour's well being is not subjugation. Conan the Barbarian's desire to crush the adjacent tribe, see them driven before him, and hear the lamentations of their women is not the same thing as expecting that if you have more food than you could possibly eat before it spoils, and your neighbour is near the point of dying from hunger, you ought to share you food with him.
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
The 'thing for which we are looking' is usually 'a difference in variable X between group A and group B.
X can be 'rate of disease progression/recovery' with A and B being patients administered a new medication vs. a placebo.
X can be 'susceptibility to radiation' with A and B being species of bird.
X can be 'biological capacity for intelligence' with A and B being human ethnic groups.
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
· Edited 2d ago
My point was that Ayn Rand and Peter Singer are both wrong; If Alice needs help, and Bob has the means to assist, I reject both the notion that 'Bob has exactly zero obligation to help' and the notion that 'Bob is obligated to contribute even to the point of self-destruction'.
I have discovered a truly marvelous definition of one person's obligation to their neighbour, which this forum is too narrow to contain. I don't have a *complete answer', but there are some useful heuristics.
For the most part, mind > body > personal possessions > non-personal property (idiosyncratically referred to by Marxists as 'private property').
The genitals and reproductive system ought not be subject to the dictates of the community, provided that everyone involved is a consenting adult.
If you do not live or work in the same place as someone else, in a modern society your obligation to them can usually be discharged by financial support, allowing them to purchase whatever they need from someone else.
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
And if 'getting what's on the shelf' is a metaphor for survival? Maintenance of human dignity?
Can you be certain that the precedent that you set won't come back to bite you in the hindquarters?
I would rather live in a world where the sink-or-swim, devil-take-the-hindmost, law-of-the-jungle social-Darwinist mode of organisation is left in the past and remembered as one of humanity's many mistakes, even if it means that if I become extremely wealthy my taxes will support people who are not useful to me.
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
I assume you are familiar with the phrase "with great power comes great respons[i]bility."
I am familiar with that phrase. Part of the responsibility is to not use that power to do bad things. Reducing someone else to a state of subjugation, for no other reason than that you can, is a bad thing.
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
saturday trading
I thought most Christians held Sunday as the Day Of Rest....
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
civilization has also historically required the less able to defer to the more able.
People have historically done lots of things that they ought not to have.
The able help and do a disproportionate share of the work, and in turn, get status and power, the less able give up status and power in exchange for being provided for.
Almost, but not quite.
If you have the ability to help someone, and you help them, you deserve appreciation. In extraordinary cases, you deserve prestige. You are not entitled to dominance, and you sure as hell aren't entitled to dominance over the people you helped.
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
Alice has a womb and Bob does not, but Bob wants to have a genetically-related child. Since Alice is "more able" than Bob, does she therefore have an obligation to provide Bob with a genetically-related child?
No, because the cost to Alice is far greater in that case.
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
She can go find a ladder. Or offer Bob something of value.
And if there aren't any ladders around, and Alice doesn't have anything Bob wants?
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
The null hypothesis would be that the value of X (in this case, susceptibility to radiation) does not differ between group A (previously known birds) and group B (the previously unknown species).
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
· Edited 2d ago
During the holocaust, many [J]ews and [Romani] wanted to initiate violence upon the Germans
'During' implies that it had already started; they weren't taking any actions against Germany prior to the German government trying to kill them!
When you unwind the chain of violence backwards, you end up with the Irgun, Haganah, Stern Gang and Lehi using violent terrorism to achieve statehood. Defending their actions and the state of Israel means defending this violence and there's no real way out of it.
I think that proves too much; does defending the existence of the Republic of Kenya mean defending the Lari massacre during the Mau Mau rebellion? Does defending the independence of Algeria mean defending the Oran massacre?
Furthermore, not defending Israel means placing the survival of the Jewish people dependent on the opinions of the Gentiles, unless a sovereign Jewish state exists elsewhere.
After the Shoah, the Jewish people resolved "Never Again!"; the meaning of this, as can be expected from anything in Jewish culture¹, is widely disputed; however, my understanding of it is something along the lines of "Never again will the goyim be in a position to tell us 'You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.'."
This makes a 'bi-national one-state solution' unworkable, except under the following circumstances:
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A Jewish-majority state exists elsewhere.
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This state is a sovereign state; no more subject to the domestic laws of any other state than Israel is.
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It has the capacity to support the population of Israel.
In your 'Jewish state in America' proposal, would these conditions hold?
Specifically, would the Jewish state in America be subject to U. S. immigration law, or would they have the legal right to admit even individuals whom 95% of the population of every U. S. State would prefer be turned away?
Would the Jewish state in America have access to the ocean, for a seaport and desalination not dependent on the permission of the U. S. Government?
Would they be subject to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, or would they have the authority to build their own nuclear power plant to power said desalination without having to tear everything out and start over halfway through?, and decide for themselves how to balance the risk of radioactive releases with the geopolitical risk of being dependent on importing water or electricity?
Nazi Germany was. How many members of Hitler's government continued to stay in power in Germany after the war ended?
And if Netanyahu's government were removed from power and a new Israeli government were established in the pre-1967 territory, or at least the areas allocated to Israel under the U. N. partition plan....
Usually, countries with reasonable immigration policies take matters like these into account. Are you proposing that the hypothetical Jewish state in America would be unwilling to take these people in?
They would; but the U. S. Government as a whole might be more reluctant; thus making significant the question of which one is making the decision!
¹I suspect this tendency might be behind some anti-Semitism, as it makes gaslighting the public more difficult; it is also one of the things I find most admirable in Jewish culture, as people's adherence to social consensus even at the cost of 'denying the evidence of their own eyes and ears' is an alarmingly common failure mode in society; we could all benefit from more people willing to stand up and say "Whaddya mean the Party says the sky is pink? Anyone can see it's blue! What do they know from colours anyway?".
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
2d ago
How long in the past do you prolong 'universal humanity'?
To the first point at which apes became capable of hosting immortal souls made according to Tzelem Elohim; 50,000 years as a lower bound.
Note that the distinction is academic absent the general resurrection of the dead, whether via divine intervention or, per Nikolai Fyodorov, human agency; in either case, the question would be answered by the same changes that made it practically relevant.
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
5d ago
'Null hypothesis' does not mean 'most likely hypothesis'; it means 'the hypothesis that the thing for which we are looking does not exist.'
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
5d ago
Alice is 5' 2"/157 cm. Bob is 6' 3"/190 cm.
Expecting Bob to get something off a high shelf for Alice does not make Bob Alice's slave.
Years ago, anthropologist Margaret Mead was asked by a student what she considered to be the first sign of civilization in a culture. The student expected Mead to talk about fishhooks or clay pots or grinding stones.
But no. Mead said that the first sign of civilization in an ancient culture was a femur (thighbone) that had been broken and then healed. Mead explained that in the animal kingdom, if you break your leg, you die. You cannot run from danger, get to the river for a drink or hunt for food. You are meat for prowling beasts. No animal survives a broken leg long enough for the bone to heal.
A broken femur that has healed is evidence that someone has taken time to stay with the one who fell, has bound up the wound, has carried the person to safety and has tended the person through recovery. Helping someone else through difficulty is where civilization starts, Mead said.
Rejecting the notion that the more able ought to help the less able is rejecting civilisation itself.
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
5d ago
An existing nation changing their head of state doesn't seem to me like it would set a precedent applicable here.
"An existing nation changing their head of state" leaves the territory of that nation unchanged. The events to which I am referring involve land which was the territory of the United Kingdom/France/Portugal/&c. becoming not the territory of those nations.
The land between the Jordan and Mediterranean was, in 1945, British territory under a League of Nations mandate. The United Kingdom and the United Nations, along with the Jewish organisations, agreed to a plan for the disposition of that territory. At that point, the Palestinian Arabs had a legal claim to Ramallah, Nablus, and Hebron. They did not have a legitimate claim to Tel Aviv or Haifa; those were British territory in the process of being transferred to Israel.
I am explicitly against wokeness and social justice politics
And I appreciate that you are more reasonable than them. That is what I was trying to convey; I apologise if I was unclear.
Not in my experience. A lot of people realise that there is a portion of the Israeli population who genuinely have nowhere else to go, despite the vast portions of the Israeli population that can just go back to Poland or France or whatever. Once you throw in real, muscular denazification efforts (i.e. prosecutions for anyone connected to war crimes, like whoever gave the order to bulldoze piles of civilian bodies to that soldier who killed himself) and efforts to achieve justice, I'm sure the Palestinians would welcome the remainder.
I doubt they would; there are many Palestinians who want the Jews either dead or living as second-class citizens, and are willing to pursue that by violence, and few who are willing to stop them. Furthermore, even assuming for the sake of argument that the Palestinian population were willing to extend Palestinian citizenship to some, or even most, formerly Israeli Jews, said population, as well as those living in HaGaluth, would be perpetually living with the implication that, if their gentile neighbours were to acquire a specimen of Apis mellifera in their haberdashery, their survival would be dependent on convincing the gentile majority in some other country that they 'deserve' to live more than said majority deserves not to be inconvenienced.
By supporting the claiming of territory via acts like that massacre, you are actually condoning the killing of non-combatants.
That argument could also support the claim that, by supporting the (Arabs') claiming of territory (the blue areas on this map) via acts like the Kfar Etzion massacre, one is also condoning the killing of non-combatants.
By supporting Israel's current genocidal efforts, you are supporting and condoning the killing of non-combatants like Hind Rajab or Mohammed Bhar.
I do not condone every action of the State of Israel, merely its continued existence; nor do I oppose accountability for the individuals responsible for wrongdoing, merely the collective punishment of Israelis who did not participate. (Yes, I am aware that some Israeli actions could be classified under that heading; that does not mean that all Israelis are responsible. If a teacher holds an entire class back from recess because one student misbehaved, that does not justify suspending every teacher in the school.)
I disagree - if you ignore the role that NATO expansion and the treatment of Russian-speakers after the Maidan you're not really painting an accurate picture of what happened. But that argument has been litigated elsewhere if you really want to get into it.
The NATO expansion doesn't signify; the decision of the Czech Republic/Poland/the Baltic states/&c. to pursue NATO membership was
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being motivated by concern that Russia would be unwilling to accept its neighbours' unwillingness to jump when Russia said 'frog', turned out to be quite prescient.
Incorrect - Israel had been bombing, blowing up and illegally settling Palestinian territory for quite some time beforehand.
I interpreted 'the current conflict in Gaza' in the narrower sense of the most recent campaign; the broader conflict was started by Egypt, Syria, and Jordan in 1967.
"Less than immaculate pasts" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. I honestly don't care that Ghislaine Maxwell or her compatriots aren't going to have a homeland of their own - prison or the bottom of the sea seems like a perfectly fine place for those like her with "non-immaculate pasts".
I'm not referring to Ghislaine Maxwell, I'm referring to someone with a thirty-year-old conviction for DUI, or a fist-fight, or shoplifting, or something of similar magnitude, often cited as a reason to refuse even very temporary entry by governments. I do not condone these things, but does a person who drinks and drives, or pilfers from a store, or punches someone he doesn't like, thus deserve to spend the rest of his life under the Sword of Damocles?
Also, what about the other category in that question?
Then what a shame that this is what they have decided to do with their state
And it is reasonable to want the people responsible held accountable. It is not reasonable to want a future Anne Frank held responsible, multiplied by six million.
the existence of a German-majority state is seen as non-negotiable by a lot of Germans
And if Germans had been subjected to what Jews have been subjected to over the past two millennia, that might be, if not on the same plane, at least in the same airport.
but that doesn't mean Nazi Germany should have been allowed to mass-murder Jewish civilians.
In 1925, Jews were less than one percent of the population of Germany. Israel has more than twenty percent Arab citizens.
Maybe after Israel is wiped from the map
Germany wasn't 'wiped from the map' even after doing far worse than even the most extreme accusations of Israeli conduct.
they can try again somewhere else, and avoid practicing apartheid and ethnic cleansing.
Where? Where else should a Jewish-majority state be established, and what will become of the people currently living there? (If you can solve this, and establish such a state beforehand, I suspect you would get far more support for a single bi-national state in the former cis-Jordanian Mandate.)
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
5d ago
· Edited 5d ago
As a True Believer in Universal Humanity, I hold the following Views on race/genetics/intelligence:
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The null hypothesis is that racial intelligence differences do not exist.
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There is not, currently, sufficient evidence to refute the null hypothesis.
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It is possible that sufficient evidence could exist in the future; however, the existence of such differences, even if proven, would not justify the conclusions drawn by the far right.
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If such differences exist, they do not make members of the less-intelligent groups less deserving of human dignity, any more than someone born to a more-intelligent group would become less deserving of human dignity upon suffering a head injury.
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The existence of a racial intelligence gap would mean that Nature herself is a racist, and those born with greater intelligence thus bear a disproportionate duty first to alleviate the immediate condition of those thus victimised by Nature, and second to develop and deploy some method of repairing the damage don by nature to those individuals.
This duty is not penance for having been born a member of a privileged group; it is the principle that If You Have The Means At Hand, You Have The Responsibility To Help.
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
7d ago
I think you might have replied to the wrong comment....
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
8d ago
In other words, would you say that Mr Coil's argument proves too much?
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
8d ago
Should we try to lower the risk as a society? Absolutely. Does that mean that the hurt person is totally blameless in the situation? No.
I suspect sometimes people pattern-match to arguments of the form "Doing FOO causes thing BAR, therefore people who FOO deserve BAR, therefore we shouldn't try to lower the risk of BAR given FOO or ameliorate BAR when it happens to someone who FOO.", e. g. not prosecuting someone who raped a woman who walked through a 'bad' area in revealing clothing as vigourously as someone who raped a conservatively-dressed woman in an upscale neighbourhood.
Celestial-body-NOS
Social Dominance Orientation is the root of all kinds of evil.
9d ago
maybe he learned to write from chatgpt
...or maybe ChatGPT learned to write from him?
So we can blame gestures at everything on Nyarlathotep?
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