Botond173
11hr ago
Hold up. White Men voting 55% red concerns you above all else but women (not just white women but all women) voting 58% blue (and we can be sure that the ratio is even more lopsided in the case of white women) does not?
Botond173
1d ago
Hold up. Are you specifically talking about Anglo countries or Western ones? Or do you think the two are essentially the same at this point? Is federal Germany practically an Anglo country as a long-term consequence of Anglo military occupation? What about France?
Botond173
2d ago
Let's ignore Paraguay and the 19th Century for now. OP's claim is specifically about Zoomers and colleges campuses today.
Botond173
4d ago
well into the 1980s, it was considered bizarre and dubious for a soviet man/woman to be unmarried at age 25. If they were still unmarried at age 30, they were basically a freak and complete outlier in their communities.
I'm sure this applied to men but I'm not sure to what extent it applied to women.
Botond173
4d ago
The USSR in 1950 had about a 4-5 male-female ratio because of the war.
According to the results of the 1959 census the (male-to-female) sex ratio among people aged 35-50 was 4:7 so I'm guessing the ratio in 1950 was more imbalanced than 4:5. To the extent that this did not result in a sexual revolution, I think it can also be explained (outside of the regime's totalitarian nature) by the fact that a man shortage was hardly an unknown phenomenon even before the war and that Soviet Russia already underwent a sexual revolution during her earlier history. There is an excellent article about this in The Atlantic from 1926.
Botond173
5d ago
For the sake of clarity I'll outline what I think are observable facts.
It's true that women greatly outnumber men on most college campuses but when looking at society as a whole we see that men are slightly outnumbering women which is a historically abnormal state of affairs as the death rate of young men is usually higher than that of their female peers. In such a situation women are increasingly prone to socially developing a sense of overall male sexual threat as the average level of male thirst keeps rising. I agree with the argument that this is a big driver of third-wave feminism. To the extent that your argument about college girls not actually engaging in debauchery and lowered standards is true, and I think there is truth to it, this seems to be one important cause of it.
I'd refer back to an observation that is supposedly backed up by evo psych research: 1. when (eligible) women start to outnumber men in their social circle for whatever reason, they start engaging in an escalating sexual competition for male attention and resources; this appears rather self-evident 2. however, such competition stops making sense when the sex ratio becomes too lopsided - I can't exactly tell where that point is but maybe a ratio of 130:100 or 140:100 is already there. It gets to a point where sexually unattractive men start propositioning women for casual or commitment-free sex which in turn induces nausea among women and compels them to end the sexual rivalry for male attention. I think it's entirely plausible that at least some college campuses have already entered this phase, which in turn does underpin your argument.
Botond173
5d ago
I'd refer to an older comment by @Lewyn:
The original Michael Bay Transformers is exactly this type of period piece. It encapsulated everything about that era of early-2000s American culture; military dudebro Call of Duty aesthetics, jingoistic patriotism, frat boy humor, etc. That type of theming was dead and buried by the 2010s, but is maybe making a resurgence now. I remember hating it at the time, but it does feel nostalgic to see now with how different everything became.
(emphasis mine)
Botond173
5d ago
It's fairly easy to resolve this contradiction because it should be easy to identify how it all worked in practice: singles did have a choice in mating but only within the social circle they were confined to by their family and elders. In plain English this meant they were provided with a limited pool to choose from. So both factors were at play.
Botond173
5d ago
Normally, too many women chasing too few men do result in debauchery and lower standards, yet that is not what we are seeing.
Are you sure about this?
Botond173
5d ago
The same phenomenon was described in this comment chain extensively by @2D3D.
Botond173
6d ago
Perhaps you mean that they are less vocal about what they want and expect the man in a relationship to Just Get It
Yes, basically. In more detail: two things. One: in order to elicit interest and initiative from eligible men, women need to have sufficient social skills and awareness to send indicators of interest that are also plausibly deniable. Two: after the man initiates conversation, the woman needs to be able to, well, hold it. As far as I can tell, many Asian single women are found lacking in both cases.
Botond173
6d ago
This issue has been fairly extensively discussed on Manosphere blogs back when they were still a thing. I can recall the main arguments more or less. Shrecker's analysis is fundamentally right with one important caveat. If the sex ratio in question becomes even more imbalanced, the effect starts to reverse. What apparently happens is that even men of lower social status start exploring opportunities for casual sex which is something they otherwise never do. This nauseates women and they respond by rejecting such advances wholesale and essentially forming a new sex cartel, waiting for the Chad with a heart of gold to show up.
Generally speaking, the average age of marriage is low and the marriage rate is high when women outnumber men, but only slightly - which has normally been the standard state of affairs. This means women in general are imbued with a sense of urgency but are at the same time not getting demoralized/dispirited.
When there are much more men then women, the general attitude is 'why should I bother settling down, all guys are available'. When the reverse is true, it's 'why should I bother settling down, no guys are available'.
Botond173
6d ago
Steve Sailer has also addressed this issue back in 1997.
Botond173
6d ago
Isn't it also true though that Asian women have usually terrible intersex communication skills?
Botond173
7d ago
20 years ago a young man who typed "how to get laid" into Google would have found the pick-up artist community, which would tell him that by doing fun adventurous things like approaching women he could gain social skills and have a lot of sex.
I think it's important to point out here that the classics of PUA literature were all written in an era when smartphones and tablets didn't exist in a practical sense.
Botond173
7d ago
Maybe people do it on a bit of a whim more often than we think.
I wonder if you're familiar with the overall conclusions in social science on the use of coal gas ovens in the UK?
Botond173
7d ago
Well, jobs at local factories have been disappearing for decades, so there isn't much to say about them. The "only one car" thing used to be the norm when middle-class married women were not yet expected to commute to fancy office jobs or to drive their kids to various after-school activities. So it's not like couples are buying two cars in order to show off to their social circle. I'm not sure where the part about leftovers come from.
Botond173
7d ago
Objectively, the conditions faced by Americans from 1980 to the present are not stressful.
I think the original claim is that it's the extent of social and cultural upheaval and dislocation between 1950 and 1990 that was stressful.
Botond173
7d ago
But at the same time, the accidental death rate among 15-19 year olds has fallen from 57.8/100k in 1980, to 18.9/100k in 2024
I guess this period also coincides with the decline of the latchkey kids phenomenon and the gradual de-normalization of what we would call today free-range parenting. On a different note, the notion that street gang membership and the popularity of dangerous hobbies has somehow declined in the same time period is suspicious.
Botond173
7d ago
Automation, agricultural mechanization and deindustrialization and mass immigration have all happened though.
I'm wondering if Abdul El-Sayed is going to get invited to Bill Maher's podcast.
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