Botond173
2d ago
most of Lindsay's supporters want her to be committed to a mental hospital
Also the real crazy women are saying the husband did it which is surprisingly wide spread
It almost seems like it's their...motte and bailey.
Botond173
2d ago
My general belief about third spaces is that they are only dead because we've killed them. People aren't going to them because they don't want to.
In the US at least I assume most of it happened as a result of the gradual dissolution of white (Polish-American, Italian-American, Irish, German etc.) inner-city ethnic enclaves/quarters which happened in parallel with suburbanization. When we think of third places, it's usually these neighborhoods we associate them with. They were both walkable and were served by public transportation. In a suburb, children generally only go anywhere after leaving the house when being transported on wheels by their parents, which generally hinders any socializing.
Botond173
2d ago
The women in this area also tend to wear jeans and baggy t-shirts instead of high heels and clubwear.
I guess it's pointless to ask this but are they generally just tagging along or do they also do some of the driving that happens? Because that'd partially explain the lack of high heels.
Botond173
2d ago
I guess the RETVRN types, or at least chill conservatives are to be found mainly among the Viking/Gladiator reenactors instead. I admit I have no idea what "Historical European Martial Arts" are.
Botond173
2d ago
Other sub cultures and scenes have been destroyed by the internet and modernity.
What do you have in mind? As far as the metal scene is concerned which you already mentioned, it's not exactly destroyed but is greatly transformed for sure, and the usual explanation that I'm familiar with is that it's completely mainstreamed and gentrified, to a point where old rock stars get knighted etc., and is thus no longer a fitting avenue to express teenage rebellion. This is why relatively few youths and much more adults and middle-aged people attend metal events nowadays. Also, much of its popularity was generated by a hostile Christian conservative right-wing milieu, and that has largely lost its relevance by this point. I guess that does count as a consequence of modernity but only in a rather wide sense of the word. Regarding the Goth scene, on the other hand, I've seen accounts that its members were prone to practising rather strict gatekeeping and exclusion due to an overall strong antipathy and concern regarding 'posers', which meant that rather few youngsters were entering the scene and eventually it withered away. Not exactly the fault of modernity, I think.
The internet surely has a corrosive effect on all of this, but I think only in the sense that teenagers and young people no longer feel compelled to meet in person whenever they merely want to chat. I'm guessing this was a big factor in the demise of malls, although I'm also guessing the mall is an institution that is particularly vulnerable to any social pathology.
You don't have to do drugs to be a raver, but you absolutely need to tolerate people being high around you [2]. This provides some level of costly buy in that separates it from mainstream culture. My tentative theory is that the desire for a space where you can semi openly use drugs provides a constant incentive towards holding underground shows.
It seems then that from a sociological point of view, the rave scene sort of hits the spot - it scares the normies away, as open and massive drug use is technically illegal, which prevents gentrification, but at the same time it's sufficiently acceptable to the mainstream so that large numbers of people are attracted to it: the police are apparently willing to generally look the other way, rave music is not seen as countercultural or fringe, and the drug consumption is of the sort that is not seen as a serious social problem by most normies.
Botond173
6d ago
I don’t disagree with your point but I suggest some minimal level of nuance should be in order. For example, I recall reading about multiple true crime cases where the disappeared girl’s purse, phone, credit card, favorite clothes etc. were all left behind at the house and yet local police was clinging to their theory for a long time that she ran away which obviously makes little sense.
Botond173
7d ago
You’ll probably find this unsurprising for a good reason, but I think it’s obvious that the people most likely to fantasize about rape, torture and murder are the ones most removed from the social reality of it, and this group in the West in general are suburban, middle-class women. The same phenomenon can be observed regarding the fandom around the Handmaid’s Tale, as it was discussed here on more than one occasion. They also the most likely to lap up feminist interpretations of crimes committed against women, which feminists are all too eager to provide.
Botond173
7d ago
OP claimed ‘the vast majority of teenage runaways who went missing did so of their own accord and were not victims of serious crime’. In the sense that the vast majority of them probably never fell victim to murder and were thus never mentioned in various true crime stories about serial killers, that is correct. I pointed out though that probably a large number of them were victimized in other ways, ways that are technically crimes even if many of the teenage victims made up their minds from the moment they ran away to turn into drug mules and prostitutes (which is possible but doesn’t seem likely), crimes that are usually considered serious in the mainstream.
The actors were making rational tradeoffs here; that's kind of why they were never reported.
I’d say the main reason was that teenage runaways were aware that trying to report a rape or assault to the police was likely to be a futile effort on their part.
I believe the meme was "I was young and needed the money".
I believe this meme usually refers to young women – that is, young adults – who did porn or posed for titty mags while in college, usually with no outside pressure being involved, so the situation is slightly different.
(Just like the groupies, for that matter, but in a slightly different way.)
Again, those are normally adults. I know it’s sort of a fad among third-wave feminists to bring up the horrible reality of so-called baby groupies, but this is still a fact.
and conflating teenagers with children, which you do further below
No, I mentioned (teenaged) children in the context of children of traumatized war veterans running away.
Botond173
8d ago
Well, if we want to be fair, the word 'serious' is doing the heavy lifting here, depending on the level of seriousness involved, because I'm sure many of the teenage runaways, especially girls, were sexually assaulted, molested, trafficked, recruited to become drug smugglers or prostitutes etc., crimes which were generally never reported. I guess maybe the great majority of them turned into average employees in the service sector, but I'm not sure about that.
Also, wasn't the period after 1973 one of stagflation and high unemployment? Surely it wasn't as bad as today for unskilled manual workers, but still.
Botond173
8d ago
If you’ve spent any amount of time online in the US true crime scene you’ve probably seen among other things the same account repeated over and over: teenage girl disappears without a trace; her concerned parents want to report her missing but local police refuses on grounds that she obviously just ran away and will probably contact them later. Potentially she’s just a junkie, a troublemaker delinquent or future prostitute; either way they think it’s not their job to search for her because reasons. They might also tell them to wait one/two/three days before filing a missing person claim because that’s the law or something. (True crime nerds will be happy to point out that no such law exists anywhere in fact.)
Later at some point someone finds her corpse or remains and it’s confirmed that she was brutally raped, tortured and slaughtered by some deranged serial killer or opportunistic toxic rapist dudebro. She is often identified only decades later thanks to DNA examination. (DNA research is a huge topic in the true crime subculture/fandom.) Said nerds, normally lipstick feminists and liberals, usually white suburban women, all agree that it’s a sad commentary on US police being lazy, misogynistic, uncaring assholes, especially in the South, of course.
Fair enough, I tell myself after hearing this; it’d be indeed difficult to show the police in a positive light in such cases. But I also notice what always goes unaddressed is the possibility that laziness and human evil alone do not fully explain the attitude of policemen. I mean – surely there were masses of teenagers who did indeed run away from home, weren’t there? And there was also a big surge in their number during the cultural and social upheaval of the ‘60s and ‘70s, right? We never hear about the great majority of them because their names never made it to true crime videos or documentaries, but the police was surely aware of them.
I once came across a description in a true crime book of social ills that led to a surge in crime in Weimar Germany. Millions of war veterans returned home, convinced that they fought for nothing and were humiliated, many of them with shattered bodies and/or shattered minds. Since these men were often violent and became alcoholics or drug addicts, if they had teenaged children, those often ran. The parallels with the US after the Vietnam War are kind of obvious, especially if we also consider the consequences of the upheavals I referred to above. In the Weimar era there were also many cases of divorced women throwing their children out to the street because daddy could no longer pay child support, and children running away from families that lost everything due to hyperinflation and later the Great Depression; many of them ended up as underaged prostitutes.)
So anyway, I find it a bit odd that the prejudices of law enforcement officers, who have to deal with the scum of society everyday, are dismissed automatically as evidently baseless. And this phenomenon does seem to be Blue Tribe coded.
Botond173
9d ago
So - basically foregoing dating and socializing with the opposite sex out of resentment and anxiety?
Botond173
9d ago
The average British, French or Belgian person in 1939 could absolutely not comprehend how anyone anywhere in the world would prefer war to peace, no matter how unjust or humiliating that peace was considered to be. In that sense their hatred of the Nazis was earnest and real.
Botond173
9d ago
The EU leadership seems to be convinced that they can force a Russian capitulation by escalating the war.
Botond173
9d ago
Such accusations against the AfD merely mean in practice that mainstream political parties in Germany are willing to sleepwalk into another big and disastrous European war for the third time in the span of 110 or so years and the AfD is the main opponent of that. In that sense they're the perfect counterexample of the stereotypically warmongering idiotic Germans.
Botond173
9d ago
Every political force in Germany had an expansionist foreign policy back then except for the Communists and a minority of Social Democrats who were unironically small-r republicans and willing to keep abiding by the Versailles 'Treaty'. The capitalist class, the landowner class, the army leadership and the bourgeoisie were all prepared to undo the shame of Versailles through war. It's just that, like the Nazis in fact, it was not another global war they had in mind. And it's not like the Communists were opposed to expansionism by virtue of being pacifists or thinking that Versailles was justified and fair.
Botond173
9d ago
As far as I can tell, true crime nerds, who are normally liberal and feminist in orientation, do usually and correctly recognize that lie detector tests are garbage science, on the other hand.
Botond173
9d ago
I'm pretty sure Redditors on average are using a laughably wide definition of 'MRA'/'red piller', especially considering that both phenomena have been practically dead for many years.
Botond173
9d ago
On a somewhat unrelated note I thought Nancy Grace generally has a bas reputation among overly online, true crime brained suburban white women.
Botond173
9d ago
Oh, so exactly like real life then.
Do you think average people have their sexual awakening after the age of 18?
And they are more expensive to boot?!
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