I wonder if you've run into the phenomenon of "slash" fiction (widely available on the web, mostly non-commercial, and sometimes in violation of copyright laws)? Slash involves taking male buddies from popular fiction -- Kirk/Spock, Holmes/Watson, Starsky/Hutch (hence the "slash") -- and writing stories in which, in the course of their adventures, they find out that they're more than just good friends, and wind up having graphic sex together. "Slash" is about 100% written and read by women -- some lesbian but most straight. In fact it follows romance novel formulas very closely. One member of the buddy pair is more sensitive and feminine -- physically a man, emotionally a woman -- while the other is a conventional romance hero. With Kirk/Spock, it's Kirk who's the sensitive one and Spock who's the cold, emotionally distant hero who discovers his true feelings at the end. Part of the appeal is that the guys end up having sex not because they're gay, but because True Love conquers all.
I think that most men are secretly (or openly) afraid that women don't like sex and only view it as a bargaining chip to get what they want out of males (companionship, emotional and physical support, or babies). Women are afraid that men only want them for sex and thus view emotional support of females mainly as a chore that they perform in order to get sex, or in order to have her give him children (in other ways, the same way men worry about women and sex). Girl-on-girl porn "proves" that women want sex, because if they didn't, why would lesbians bother having sex with each other, instead of just cuddling all the time? Similarly, if gay men get all "girly" around each other and think about love, commitment, and relationships, then that "proves" that men are interested in such things - because if they were just ploys to get sex, gay men would have no reason to do these things amongst each other, because they can easily get sex from each other. So heterohomophilia (a term I coined for heterosexual fascination with homosexuals of the opposite sex) is, I think, as much about dealing with insecurity as anything else.
Steve Sailer quoting two of his readers on this subject back in 2006
Botond173
2d ago
I don't think I'm overestimating it among female college students. I think the clear cultural messages have been conveyed to them for a long time that a) slut-shaming is done by angry and bitter men b) any male complaints about or negative reactions to female sexual behavior are fundamentally loser-coded and are to be dismissed. So I'm guessing she assumed that the fratboys were behind her getting disinvited from the party and it fueled her anger.
Botond173
2d ago
It's probably no coincidence that the three groups of women with the general reputation of being down for performative/desire sex are young women (so not yet interested in long-term commitment), recently divorced women (done with the whole concept of long-term commitment, at least for the time being) and cougars (who basically left the mating/relationship marketplace altogether).
Botond173
2d ago
Isn't the whole point of the existence of sororities to insert themselves in situations such as this?
Botond173
2d ago
It makes sense. Women obviously have no innate conception of the effect of T on the sex drive and what it can compel them to do.
Botond173
2d ago
Are you sure about this? A 20-yr-old was 11 years old when the MeToo campaign started.
Botond173
2d ago
It seems to be that OP is referring to an unwritten/unstated social rule so asking for publicly available evidence probably isn't warranted here.
Botond173
2d ago
At least among the subset of women willing to engage in group sex in the first place, is it safe to assume most will regret it?
Probably yes.
I would expect that the vast majority of these sorts of encounters end with all parties going their separate ways having gotten more-or-less what they wanted out of it.
I guess I'm beating a dead horse of my own at his point but everyone involved here belonged to the same small social circle on campus. Going their separate ways wasn't a realistic option. It was also unrealistic to expect that the men involved will all go on to conspire to carefully conceal the incident from all other women in the same social circle.
Botond173
2d ago
I recall this being a specific argument of the Youtuber The Jolly Heretic.
Botond173
3d ago
In this telling, it's very much a "is there anyone you forgot to ask" situation, where third parties are inserting themselves into something that they have no business inserting themselves into.
Well sorry but no. A queen bee who's heading a sorority presumably with high status on campus has an evident interest in preventing that sorority from gaining the reputation of being associated with crazy sluts.
Botond173
3d ago
Don't you think that there is too high a bar for this level of conspiracy and coordination in this particular social setting?
Botond173
3d ago
Botond173
3d ago
it was the men who were not taking responsibility for their choices
The responsibility to do...what? Other commenters here have pointed out that the disinvitation to the Halloween party obviously seems to originate from the sorority queen bee. Were they responsible to defy her in this?
Botond173
3d ago
So to spell it out, in your view it was the unmet specific obligation of the fratboys involved to carefully conceal the incident from a) the sorority queen bee and her minions b) clueless male students of the same college whom the woman in question sees as potential future boyfriends/husbands.
Botond173
3d ago
It's fair to say that sex is almost never transactional for men whereas for the average woman it's more the norm and not the exception.
Botond173
3d ago
Treating them shabbily is in very poor taste.
Is this a reference to the dis-invitation to Halloween?
Botond173
3d ago
One interpretation I've read is that this phenomenon was driven just as much by the women. Hippie couples would join a commune and the women would go on to compete for the sexual attention of the commune leader. When the men objected the women would go on to complain of their "possessiveness".
Botond173
3d ago
Others saw an opportunity to exploit her experience for their own gain, and pushed her to "reinterpret" the situation to advance their agendas.
What do you mean?
Botond173
3d ago
Unfortunately the social reality is that 'being considered a slut by her sorority' is a fatal tragedy in the eyes of the average female college student who, on the other hand, has been indoctrinated from her youth, as have been her parents, that trying to sexually shame women for anything is absolutely taboo.
Botond173
3d ago
Let's not get carried away here. If this woman wanted to get gangbanged by men outside her immediate social circle at college so that her reputation doesn't suffer it was well within hear means to make that happen.
Botond173
3d ago
Admittedly a lazy question but here it goes anyway: in the earlier discussion on this incident that took place here one highlight/moment that was mentioned was that this woman, supposedly already drunk and drugged out of her mind at that point, accepted a proposal from two guys to have a threesome, apparently under the assumption that this will actually entail her getting to watch homo sex happening. I imagine her disappointment contributed to her regretful recollection of that night’s events afterwards. One one hand I think this should be cause for a conversation on the brain-rotting effects of prevalent literary porn consumption among college-educated single women. On the other hand, is this even getting commented on?
Huh?
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