This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
False dichotomy, there's no reason to tolerate really bad behaviour among your own people or allow immigration from totally different peoples.
If your son is a total deadbeat loser who molests your daughter, you can kick him out or punish him. That you have some finite, natural obligation to family does not also mean you are also obliged to let random people into your home to stay permanently, regardless of whether they pay rent or not.
Some immigrants are obviously high-value and very economically productive. Others are negative value, El Salvadoran gangsters for instance. States should seek to siphon off the highest-value migrants while rejecting the low-value migrants. But even then, high-value migrants can be dangerous. What if they seek to manipulate your politics and embroil your country in foreign struggles? What if they employ nepotism or favoritism to privilege lower-value coethnics for future employment once they reach positions of influence? Are they loyal to your country when the chips are down or will they move on to greener pastures?
Immigration is a very sensitive and dangerous matter that should be approached with caution. The gains are concentrated (cheaper labour, expansion of consumer base, higher house prices) but the costs are harder to perceive and diffuse (social trust, pension/health costs, political unity and the erosion of institutions).
More options
Context Copy link