This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
In general, if your views could be proven wrong by a five-minute conversation with a normal person or three, you should wonder first if it's true in the first place. Have you talked to anyone about this, or are these assumptions made of what you've been told by fellow extremely online nerds?
I haven't really held any conversation with Poles but my views on Western Europeans come from personal experience with them.
In terms of evidence, one can look at the mountains of litter left behind by hip and wealthy Western Euros after music festivals or spring breakers in Spain, or the valuation of so-called 'street art' (for example Banksy).
Anti-police movements also have their supporters in Western Europe, while police forces in the UK have been found to protect sex traffickers for fear of racism (racism is worse than sex trafficking for a certain subset of Weuros).
I haven't been to any music festivals in Poland, but I've been to the ones in Serbia. Whiter crowd than Western Europe, no different behavior. You're genuinely barking up the wrong tree.
Serbia, for that matter, has an amount of graffiti penned down I've not seen in any city where I live(the Netherlands). It's not even close. Not the very tiniest bit.
Certainly policing isn't something that makes the Eastern Europeans look good, either. Eastern European police officers take the job to wear a uniform, look cool, harass epople they don't like, and draw a salary from bribes as much as they do payment depending on where you're at.
I'll say it again: you're barking up the wrong tree. Any of the flaws you attribute to us Weuros - I don't mind the term - could be applied to Easterners, aside from the general charge of being vaguely anti-immigration.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link