site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 3, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

24
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Expanse was a very good show, had everything that people who supposedly hate [insert woke-privileged minority] can't stand. But it got six seasons, good character development, a story that resolved in some sense etc. etc. Wasn't perfect by a long shot, but notable in just being competently written, mostly coherent, mostly realistic at the human level.

If you care about "representation" (which I don't), this is one example among many of how it can be done well, profitably and without having to rail about how shit your fans are.

Certainly helps that the source material had that representation built-in, not just because the authors wanted it but because the world they created completely justified it, and even then they were able to incorporate racial/cultural tensions by playing up the differences between people born on Earth, Mars, or the Belt.

Likewise, they didn't put in 'token' characters or limit their diverse casting in weird ways to avoid uncomfortable implications. The good-hearted captain protag is a cis white male (ignore that he's the result of intentional genetic engineering and shares DNA from multiple members of his queer poly family), the main antag from the first few seasons is an ethnically Chinese (I believe?) CEO, then the last season they give you Marco Inaros, who is basically Space Che Guevara and an utterly irredeemable monster by the end of the show despite coming from an unambiguous background of oppression. Like, the entire thesis of his character is "yes, there are indeed acts heinous enough that they cannot be justified by the fact that you and 'your people' have been oppressed for generations and have very few ways to strike back." Which is contra the normal SJW narrative that oppressed peoples should never be held morally accountable for their behavior, even violent and deadly behavior, so long as it only hurts their oppressors.

So the lines between good and evil are often blurry, the morality of the decisions made by various characters is often grey, so you get the sense that the writers have priorities that don't center around diversity for diversity's sake or singling out any given group for praise or criticism. Which is nice.

I'm actually very sad that we didn't (yet) get to their full take on the upstart fascist empire, which is actually pretty glowing at the outset, since the message "we're better than you, we know what's best for you, and we're going to make things better whether you want it or not" is backed up by the fact that they DO have the best and brightest citizens, they DO have the most advanced technology, and they DO, seemingly, want to advance the wellbeing of humanity as a whole.

But the inherent problems of balancing the interests of an entire interstellar empire on the back of a single megalomaniac with no qualms about sacrificing humans for the 'greater good' and a tendency towards aggressively upgrading himself with barely-tested technologies are explored in an entertaining way.

So basically, Laconia comes across as a nice place to live if you don't piss off the ruling class whilst still not desirable in the grand scheme of things.