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Notes -
President Biden proposed a reform of the Supreme Court:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/07/29/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-bold-plan-to-reform-the-supreme-court-and-ensure-no-president-is-above-the-law/
I don't know if 1 is really necessary, I honestly kind of like 2 and are sceptic how to enforce 3. Certainly a more centrist approach instead of court packing.
Biden isn't actually trying to build a legacy as a lame duck, is he? This has to be campaigning. Energize, synergize, winner-gize!
Generally, if Congress wants to pass a new amendment reducing executive immunity, I say go for it. That's what they're for. Do I trust they are capable of writing an amendment better than the SCOTUS ruling even if they had support? No.
How vulnerable a president should be to prosecution is a difficult question. It's a question I suspect SCOTUS didn't want to answer. I think most would have preferred to keep the presidential pardon norm, avoid the question, or avoid the candidate and cases that spurred it. Personally, I don't like the ruling, but I do think SCOTUS landed on the correct side of the trade off. I prefer an executive getting a lot of legal protection, because I'd really like to push the Rubicon crossing as far away as possible. Voting, impeachment, and the three different "layers" of presidential immunity seems fine. It'll cause some problems, but any policy will cause some problems.
Term limits seem fine, so long as we can agree to start with term limits in fifteen or twenty years. Some medium-far date that demonstrates we're changing the rules on principle, rather than political convenience of today.
Conduct and ethics rules I am only fine with if they expand to include Federal elected legislators, judges, and executive appointees. If Congress can pass a law that will hold themselves to the same standards they want to apply elsewhere, then sure let's do it.
Just for clarity, are you suggesting that a Rubicon crossing is less likely if we allow the President more leeway? Personally I disagree. I think being too permissive with a President is the more dangerous road. Think of it like parenting. While of course being "too strict" with your kids often leads to trouble and rebellion eventually, that's not the situation we're in. Since the Presidency (and Executive) in general is currently receiving more "lax parenting" from the legal process, I think doing a better job of setting rules and boundaries is more helpful and more likely to prevent a President doing something dramatically bad. In other words, those boundaries and restrictions on the President prevent malfeasance. I think giving the President too much space to do whatever they want without good boundaries is a recipe for the President to push those boundaries as much as possible. Much like teens might, boundary-pushing is expected and declining to set any in the first place is not a good parenting strategy.
Yes, of course. Caesar's enemies don't need to placate all of his ambition. They need a bit less obstructionism, unyielding perspective, bitter zero sum politics, and a few clicks down on the compulsion to destroy their political rivals. Employ a bit more savvy, a bit more compromise, and outcomes other than the destruction of the Republic become more likely. Hopefully those outcomes even become appealing or preferable. I would not go back in time to tell Cato that if he imposes a few more limitations -- just one more extra long filibuster -- on his bitter enemy that everything would work out. The obstructionism, the politics, the factionalism is how you find out, woops, I guess power can be different than what it appears to be.
I didn't argue that the executive shouldn't have any limitations to immunity. Just that the Trump v. US ruling landed in about the correct area. The President is not practically any more or less "immune" to murdering his political enemies than he was 10 years ago. I have only read excerpts of the opinions and dissents, by the way.
It sounds like you have a lot more trust in the entities that enforce "rules and boundaries" than I do. I believe if the President had no legal immunities today they would be mired in nothing but lawsuits. I'd wager we agree there, then at some point from no limitations on prosecution to has chip in his brain that puts him to sleep when he thinks about a crime we diverge. Allowing the President to do stuff without having obstructionism and factionalism destroy the Republic is good. The qualm about the bribes hypothetical that ACB (I think) brought up as and the related evidentiary issue is a sticking point. I don't mind the President being immune to extra presidential bribes if it means another 100 years of of peace. This ruling gives the nation more time to iron out the details in the future.
We have cases of "no immunity" to full immunity, we have a mechanism to impeach, and we have a mechanism to remove a president every 4 years. It's fine, it's enough. Asking for much more from the same people, those that can get lost in the of their own perception of power, carries a risk. SCOTUS majority probably saw that people imposing rules and boundaries couldn't stop themselves or, if they didn't think so now, they saw a future where they couldn't.
A reliable, peaceful transfer of power is worth a hundred consecutive Trump presidencies.
That's an interesting perspective! I did ask mostly because I was curious and I appreciate your thoughts.
On reflection, I guess to me the bribe issue seems a little too close to plausibility for me, especially when you cross it with the pardon power. While typically I trust presidents not to abuse the pardon power too badly, or if they do it's generally not a big deal, its specific interaction with the recent ruling seems a bit more dangerous than either aspect in isolation.
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