site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 2, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I'll admit that's a tough one I don't have an answer to besides the fact that continuing this zombie-statist-capitalism will eventually lead to national bankruptcy along with a Defense Industrial Base that literally cannot keep pace with a peer actor (China).

I have some bad news for you - this won't eventually lead to national bankruptcy and a defence industrial base that cannot keep pace with China. You're already there! China has 232 times the shipbuilding capacity of the USA, and their manufacturing capacity in just about every other industry is leagues ahead of the US as well. In wartime, civilian manufacturing capacity can be switched over to defence/military work - but building entirely new facilities and staffing/training them is substantially more expensive, difficult and time consuming. While the problem isn't as bad (but absolutely still present - https://www.defenseone.com/defense-systems/2024/06/mixed-results-us-military-efforts-reduce-dependence-china/397368/) in military manufacturing, there's enough Chinese penetration into both to render them extremely vulnerable to disruption in the event of serious conflict with China. Keep pace with China? The defence industrial base isn't just failing to keep pace with China, it isn't even capable of standing on its own without their assistance!

Think about what an actual military conflict with China would entail - the removal of Chinese manufacturing capacity (or worse the subversion of critical US military infrastructure due to Chinese manufactured backdoors etc) would cause the US supply chain to fall apart, creating countless problems that would need resources diverted to fix them precisely when those resources would be needed to recreate a manufacturing base. Fixing it is going to be really complicated as well. First of all, the people who made the decisions to cut costs and sell US manufacturing to China are in many cases still in power and still profiting from those decisions. Second, actually seriously investing in domestic manufacturing and military manufacturing would greatly strengthen the domestic political enemies of those in power. This is actually one of the reasons the CHIPS act failed - the various left-wing political sinecures and set-asides put into the bill to make sure that they were on the right side of history were so odious that they held up progress on the proposed plant.

I agree with all of this. I hold out hope that there's still time for America to unfuck itself, but that that timeframe is measured in months at most.