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naraburns 1yr ago·Edited 1yr ago
Is there anyone arguing that the last two years was NOT a "shit show"?
I thought pretty much everyone agreed that it was indeed a shitshow, but that the specifics were still being debated. (Happy to be shown I am wrong. Please point me to the person who thinks the pandemic went off in an exceedingly well-ordered manner.)
Otherwise, are you not moderating for an imaginary hypothetical person?
Secondarily, it's a fairly common phrase. You don't really think I was trying to build a consensus, do you? (I wasn't.)
For my own clarification, is it "consensus-building" idioms and expressions that are outlawed, or actual consensus building?
For my own clarification, is it "consensus-building" idioms and expressions that are outlawed, or actual consensus building?
What do you think the difference is, in a text-only medium? If you say words to the effect of "everyone knows" or "everyone agrees," you're almost certainly literally wrong. But if we let everyone get away with saying things that are literally wrong on grounds that "we know what they meant," this creates a bailey in which people can make very strong claims ("everyone with eyes agrees with me") but, when challenged, can retreat to innocuous claims ("it's just an idiom, besides, even if everyone disagrees about the specifics, they at least agree on the general point, I wasn't saying anything controversial!").
This place is called the Motte because we don't want you playing in the bailey.
So either you understand what I'm saying, and you realize that you've been caught with your hand in the cookie jar, and you're going to do better--or, you're still confused, in which case I would tell you, personally, to avoid "consensus-building" idioms, because you do not use them sufficiently artfully to prevent people from thinking you are actually consensus-building.
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Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
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Notes -
This would explain the total catastrophe of Western medicine as seen by almost everyone with eyes in the last two years.
Please refrain from consensus-building language. If you see a shit-show, tell us what you see! But don't insist that only the blind could disagree.
Is there anyone arguing that the last two years was NOT a "shit show"?
I thought pretty much everyone agreed that it was indeed a shitshow, but that the specifics were still being debated. (Happy to be shown I am wrong. Please point me to the person who thinks the pandemic went off in an exceedingly well-ordered manner.)
Otherwise, are you not moderating for an imaginary hypothetical person?
Secondarily, it's a fairly common phrase. You don't really think I was trying to build a consensus, do you? (I wasn't.)
For my own clarification, is it "consensus-building" idioms and expressions that are outlawed, or actual consensus building?
What do you think the difference is, in a text-only medium? If you say words to the effect of "everyone knows" or "everyone agrees," you're almost certainly literally wrong. But if we let everyone get away with saying things that are literally wrong on grounds that "we know what they meant," this creates a bailey in which people can make very strong claims ("everyone with eyes agrees with me") but, when challenged, can retreat to innocuous claims ("it's just an idiom, besides, even if everyone disagrees about the specifics, they at least agree on the general point, I wasn't saying anything controversial!").
This place is called the Motte because we don't want you playing in the bailey.
So either you understand what I'm saying, and you realize that you've been caught with your hand in the cookie jar, and you're going to do better--or, you're still confused, in which case I would tell you, personally, to avoid "consensus-building" idioms, because you do not use them sufficiently artfully to prevent people from thinking you are actually consensus-building.
Reminds me of people who get offended on behalf of a hypothetical person who might theoretically be offended.
"Everyone agrees the Holocaust was bad."
Mod: "Please refrain from consensus building."
This forum is way over moderated. I'm going back to Reddit.
Thanks for letting us know. Stay safe out there!
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