This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Donald Trump vs. the Blob Part 2 : Electric Boogaloo
Ladies and gentlemen, it's been 4 years since our last bout. In one corner, we have the undisputed champ, the greatest of all time, the BADDEST man on planet Earth, the king, the DC blllooob! And in the other corner, the challenger, the next Hitler, the orange man, the Donald himself, Donaaallld Trump.
Let's.. get... ready.. to... rumble!
Holy shit it's been a crazy week for the current members of the Federal bureaucracy. Let's review:
Trump issued an Executive Order that almost all federal workers will have to return to office five days a week
All federal workers also received an offer to resign immediately. If they accept, they will get their current salary and benefits until September (an incredibly generous 8 month severance package). All they have to do is reply with the word "resign".
But also, workers will have to prove that they haven't been working a second or third job (in Reddit parlance, a J2, J3, etc..) It turns out this is actually a crime punishable by prison.
On the other hand side, we have the Reddit hivemind.
There is a Reddit for federal workers called /r/fednews. It's a revealing glimpse into an entitled and mentally ill slice of our federal workforce. Much like every other website, and especially themotte.org, they post almost exclusively during working hours.
These "workers" also may be violating federal law by explicitly campaigning on the behalf of one political party over another. Even posting on Reddit may be illegal.
So who wins?
It's a tough call. On one hand, in theory, Trump controls the executive branch. On the other hand, he doesn't control the judiciary who will ultimately decide the outcome. Already, many lawsuits have been filed on behalf of aggrieved federal employees.
Furthermore, not counting the military, there are 2 million federal employees. This is a massive army of people who, though already 95% anti-Trump, are now galvanized into action to prevent the erasure of their generous pay and benefits.
Has Trump bitten off more than he can chew? Will the champion remain undefeated? Or will the challenger land enough blows to sway the judges. You decide! Respond in the comments below.
The most charitable take on this is that since Trump has been getting some pushback for ordering people back to the office, he's giving them an opportunity for an out. My IRS friend mentioned in the comment below says that they're phasing in the full return over the next month. So if you're WFH and don't want to go back you can resign now and get an 8 month runway to find a new job. It doesn't seem like a totally unreasonable option, given that he could have just ordered everyone back and left it at that.
The problem is that it's executed so poorly it isn't even entirely clear what is being offered, and it doesn't do much to inspire confidence in the US Government as an employer. If any normal employer were offering something akin to this, the email announcing it would only be an announcement. Someone from HR would go to every department to give a presentation to interested employees and answer any questions. There would be a packet explaining everything in detail. There would be paperwork to sign. There wouldn't be a mass email that didn't provide any details and required employees to accept within a week by texting "RESIGN" to 48463 (standard messaging and data rates may apply). The speed at which this was depolyed suggests that OPM didn't do a thorough job of identifying who to offer this to. I mean, no one in the administration even can say what's going to happen to anyone who takes this offer. I don't know why anyone would except it (except maybe if you had planned on leaving anyway), and the matter in which it came about would make me suspicious of anything coming from my employer.
Might it be possible that you don't need all that ceremony and can just do things?
More options
Context Copy link
Yeah, the email seems pretty sloppy and incompetent which is no doubt fueling a lot of the conspiracy theories.
That said, how does one reform an org of 2 million people with the limited resources of the Presidency. Apparently, the admin only has 4,000 political appointees, of which 1,200 need Senate confirmation. So there just isn't enough manpower to steer an organization 1000x the size which is 90% composed of people who hate you.
With a business, the CEO can easily promulgate orders down the chain of command because there isn't a large group within the org actively resisting.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link