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I think the most disturbing type of argument around Ukraine is the one that pretends to be doing it "for their own good". Like "Why don't you want peace, why don't you want peace? Why do you want your people to die?" to the victims of a dictator invading their home, bombing their cities, kidnapping their children and stealing their land. If they aren't settling for your offer it's probably because they don't think your offer is good enough to actually protect them. They're in desperation, if an offer was convincing they would take it. So why not?
They've been promised security before, they gave up their nukes for it. They sign a deal that Russia won't punch them in the face, Russia violates it twice and if they don't want to just sign another without a stronger third party guarantee, it's not because they don't want peace. It's because they know Russia can't be trusted.
They don't think American investments means much, before the war there was that joke rule of "no two countries with a McDonald's have ever been at war" which was essentially emblematic of this concept. That international business interests for peace were simply too strong for a country to overcome, and yet the war happened anyway.
If someone doesn't want to support Ukraine fine, there's lots of other bad stuff we ignore and don't help out with. But those people spreading this idea that "they must want to be invaded and die so not helping them is actually the best help", I just find that really sickening.
This is a Reddit-tier strawman. Find one person one /r/themotte who ever said "they wanted to be invaded".
But yes, if the U.S. is going to provide Ukraine with weapons, which it is under no obligation to do, then it is incumbent on the US to decide if those weapons are doing more harm than good. The US is sovereign. It alone should decide which countries to help and why.
More importantly, we have no idea what supporting the people of Ukraine even means any more. Elections have been suspended. Does the average Ukrainian want to continue prosecute the war? Nobody knows. But we definitely know that many of the soldiers don't want to fight. Otherwise they wouldn't have to be kidnapped off the streets to fight and die on the front lines.
The war should be easy to end. Take the current front line. These are the new borders.
Is it just? No. Is it peace? Yes. The US must stop funding a meat grinder which kills real men every day. Once there is peace, then there can be money for weapons to secure it.
And anyone who want to support Ukraine more meaningfully can do so right now. Put your own life on the line instead of another man's.
If this offer were on the table, backed by security guarantees, Zelenskyy would take it in a heartbeat. Trump has not made any such offer.
It seems unlikely that Trump will do that. In fact it’s about as likely as Ukraine retaking Crimea. It seems like the reason it’s off the table is that many think Ukraine want that so they can continue to instigate Russia, draw the US into the war, and retake territory. If the entire Atlantic alliance blows up over Ukraine, I will blame Zalensky and Ukrainian intransigence.
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