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I'm an immersive sim aficionado so I feel strongly about these in particular. Especially since infinite killed the genre for years so I've had to scrounge up indie jank like EYE and Cruelty Squad to scratch that itch ever since.
Bioshock was a definite step up from System Shock 2.
One can quibble about the writing, most people prefer Rapture, but I always thought SS2 had underrated worldbuilding.
The gameplay is just strictly superior. SS2 suffered from this old adventure game syndrome of softlocking you if you made reasonable but wrong choices. You could end up having to start a new save if you didn't upgrade the right skills and there's no obvious logic to what you need. Compare Bioshock which actually lets you engage in different playstyles without punishing you if you don't do it the intended way, and you can tell that there was a Deus Ex in between.
Pacing is also vastly improved. Bioshock is one of the best written video games I know in terms of pace, you're always engaged in the story from the beginning to the end, whereas people tend to forget that the last chapters of SS2 were a slog.
If you've never played Bioshock 2, I recommend it. It's probably the best in the franchise, the story is surprisingly nuanced and the gameplay is a more mature version of the first one in a way that makes Infinite's level design feel amateur in comparison.
Yeah, I can't disagree too strongly with any of that. But I think it's relative to where you put your high water mark. For you it's Bioshock 2, for it's writing and gameplay. For others it's System Shock 2 for climbing to the top of the hill Ultima Underworld discovered, with it's inventory management, statistics, skills and all. I think by the time we get to Bioshock Infinite, it's bifurcated, it's a distinctly different genre than what Ultima Underworld and System Shock were. But circa Bioshock 1, that wasn't clear yet, they were just beginning to go their own ways. So people might look at one or the other and say "Clearly this one is better" depending on whether they wanted a narrative action game or a first person RPG.
Fair enough, but I always thought of immersive sims as their own genre where the exact blend of RPG and action has to serve the context.
For instance, Deus Ex's aiming mechanics, despite being a bit weird in hindsight actually made logical sense, guns don't hit harder if you're more skilled, they're just easier to aim. And so forth.
But there's definitely a point where RPG and action game touch and on either side is something different. I personally believe that point is Morrowind.
Deus ex guns did do far more damage with skill btw
Shit you're right! Can't believe I never noticed that.
I guess the location modifiers just overwhelm it so much I never felt like I couldn't kill something with a low skill weapon. I guess I'll have to look for it next playthrough.
I remember checking as a kid when I ran out of pistol ammo and tried going rambo with the assault rifle at untrained. Turned out the gun inexplicably does no damage anyway, even with the skill boosts.
Like it's so weak the 1st skill gives no extra damage because 3x1.2 = 3
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