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Notes -
What if our fundamentals are exactly backwards?
New to The Motte, looking for constructive, critical discussion.
Here's an example of what I mean by a "fundamental":
Every economic system that has seemed credible to most people since the dawn of civilization has revolved around the legal establishment and safeguarding of property through the concept of ownership.
But what is ownership? I have my own ideas, but I asked ChatGPT and was surprised that it pretty much hit the nail on the head: the definitional characteristic of ownership is the legal right to deprive others.
This has been such a consistently universal view that very few people question it. Even fewer have thought through a cogent alternative. Most people go slack-jawed at the suggestion that an alternative is possible.
Here's something from years back, before I'd zeroed in on the perverse nature of ownership:
Anyone want to brainstorm a viable alternative to "ownership"?
/images/17459352527399495.webp
Okay, I'll bite.
So what is your solution to the paranoid who don't understand the concept of sharing?
Well, first off, we'd need to recognize we're talking about people, not symptoms of problems to be solved. In other words, we need to stop approaching problems inhumanly, i.e., psychopathically. Second, 5-year-olds can learn to share, no biggie. Third, we need to stop idolizing the most paranoid, twisted, mind-fucked of all: the "rich and powerful" -- from town bosses to the pinnacle of the elitist parasite class. This stage is called "clear the smoke". Once we've done that, it's going to be a lot clearer what actually remains to be done and what we need to do. But, I suspect, once we've got the ball rolling, it's gonna do what it's gonna do. The only thing we absolutely need so as to be sure it will be good is unflinching honesty.
So kill them? That's what you mean, right?
Because people have tried this, and it didn't become "clear" what remained to be done except continue killing until you run out of people to steal from, limp on in totalitarian misery and eventually give up.
We've had honest communism. Many times, over the corpses of millions, with more earnestness than you or I will ever muster. It doesn't work.
I think this is uncharitable. I assume he just wants to dispossess the "elite parasite class" of their land and assets (and redistribute them to poor people), and then convince them of the error of their ways (if you hold his worldview, then they will just understand how much better it is to share once we let them see what a society unshackled from the notion of "ownership" looks like)
I think this is what would happen in practice if OP's idea of abolishing ownership was actually implemented. But I don't think this is his intent, I think he just has a different model of human nature and societies than we do (if I don't believe in germs and I sneeze on my immunocompromised friend, and he dies, that doesn't mean I wanted to kill him, or had any kind of malicious intent towards him)
And when they inevitably refuse to be sent to the reeducation camp, they will be killed. At best. I've seen this movie before.
If pressing the button caused disaster every time it's been pressed, and it's been pressed many times, to as many disasters, you're morally deficient if you keep pressing it. OP is capable of understanding cause and effect.
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