Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 107
- 4
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Court opinion:
An owner wants to renovate a four-story building by adding an elevator and a library. He hires a drafter to draw up construction plans for the renovation. When the drafter is done, the owner likes the plans and wants to start construction, but the drafter informs him that permits cannot be obtained without the signature and seal of a "licensed design professional"—i. e., either an architect or an engineer.
The owner contacts a licensed architect. But he thinks that the architect's fees are too high, so he hires a licensed engineer instead. The architect complains to the state architecture board that the engineer is practicing architecture without a license.
At the proceeding before the architecture board, everybody involved concedes that the renovation involves components of both architecture and engineering. But the architect's expert witness testifies that it's 80 percent architecture and 20 percent engineering, while the engineer's expert witness testifies that it's 80 percent engineering and 20 percent architecture! The board sides with the architect, and imposes fines on the engineer (1 k$) and the drafter (300 $).
The appeals panel reverses the board's decision. If the architecture board were justified in imposing fines in this case, then the engineering board would have been justified in imposing fines on the architect if the owner had hired the architect rather than the engineer, and that would be a nonsensical catch-22. It makes much more sense to say that, if a project has substantial overlap between architecture and engineering, then either an architect or an engineer can sign and seal its plans without fear of being fined.
Note that this case is from Pennsylvania. In contrast, New Jersey eliminated this problem by specifically allocating different types of buildings exclusively to architects, exclusively to engineers, or permissively to both groups of licensed professionals. The building at issue in this case was in IBC occupancies B (business—law offices on floors 1–3) and R (residential—an apartment on floor 4), of which New Jersey assigns both exclusively to architects.
More options
Context Copy link