This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Sadly, I must refer you back to the "it hasn't been properly studied" point above. "No conclusions can be drawn" is basically a constant refrain in the Cass Review.
I think the first time I heard about it was with the case of Jazz Jennings, the rest is connecting the dots from what gender clinicians say themselves. From another post of mine:
One note: I did adjust my position somewhat since writing it. Recently I've seen an interview with a guy that had hypogonadism, basically the opposite of precocious puberty, where his body didn't want to trigger normal development. Apparently doctors managed to get him mostly up to speed where he now looks and acts (the lack of puberty also affected his psychology) like a normal bloke, so from this I figure it's not as bad as I thought. I keep promising myself I'll look into the literature on his condition, since if it describes what happens when it's untreated, that should give a non-politicized answer to the question of what happens due to puberty blockers, but I haven't found the time / motivation to do so yet.
I've also know of at least one detrans woman who managed to get pregnant post-testosterone (I think there are even non-detrans females that gave birth while constantly taking hormones). This is all in contrast to the blockers+hormones case, where I see gender clinicians themselves getting nervous, trying to adjust time-tables, and hacking around the issue, as per the quote above.
Sorry if it's conjecture, but I don't think anyone has actual data on this (or they do, but keep it secret, which wouldn't be surprising either at this point).
More options
Context Copy link