site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 5, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

105
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I wouldn't be so sure of it. This might be one of those cases a control group doesn't exist at all. Good luck finding a child who never cheated. Does trying to peek through your hands covering your eyes when playing hide and seek count?

Saying all this because not a fan of moral highgrounds built on spurious priors.

Yeah, kids cheat and this is why we teach them not to do it.

If the one and only time he ever cheated was when he was 12, then this would be unfair.

But he cheated (and got caught) again when he was 17. That not alone makes it seem more likely he would also cheat again when he was 19, but that he may have been cheating (without being caught) in the meantime as well.

Is that unfair? Possibly. But it's what happens when you create a reputation for yourself as being unpleasant and caught out at cheating. People aren't willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, because you have pissed them off, and you've already shown you are willing to cheat if you think you can get away with it.

The worst thing would be if he did win this game fair and square, because he is that talented and he did have a flash of inspiration, but there will always be those who don't believe it was fair and that he successfully cheated his way to victory. That will always hang over his reputation and future games.

Whether those priors are "spurious" is the issue under dispute.