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PaperclipPerfector  1d ago (text post)   809 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for June 6, 2025

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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I'm a committed pacifist (in the style of the Amish), and I'm trying to raise the kids to also be pacifists.

There's a reason there's no Oakland Amish. This is not an argument against the values described, just a note on their evident limitations. Pacifism works when you live with other committed pacifists. Distance can replace walls and spears.

This is a straightforward example of my claim that "basically all objections to pacifism boil down to rejecting the doormat failure mode", and so whole-heartedly disagree with you :)

could you elaborate? This sounds interesting.

There's a reason there's no Oakland Amish.

There's no Amish, but there are self-declared pacifists. See for example https://oaklandcatholicworker.org.

This is not an argument against the values described, just a note on their evident limitations.

I disagree this is a limitation of pacifism. No body wants to live in "Oakland" (which I'm assuming is metonymy for any violent place). I claim that pacifism has better outcomes than non-pacifism for someone who must live in such a place. I don't think these are always strictly better outcomes for the individual, but that these better outcomes are society-wide.

Pacifism works when you live with other committed pacifists.

You imply that it doesn't work around non-pacifists, which I disagree with. Although the disagreement is probably about the aims that we should be working towards.

Distance can replace walls and spears.

Most reasonable people would prefer to be away from violence. So I don't think this is a unique jab at pacifism.

The implication is that pacifists cannot strategically interact with violence in a way that achieves their aims. But there are plenty of pacifists who would strategically reduce their distance to conflict in order to effect change that cannot be accomplished with spears. The AFSC ambulance units that helped combatants and non-combats on all sides in WWI and WWII is a standard example. In my own life, I've lived in North Korea trying to reduce conflict between them and the US.

There aren't, but there are plenty of Amish a stone's throw from Cleveland, Columbus, Philly, and Pittsburgh. They even open furniture stores in these cities, and employ the English to run the stores, build websites, do customer service, and what have you. Doesn't take as much distance as you'd think.

Because it's not an environment suitable to small scale agriculture?

and yet, think of the carpentry opportunities!

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