This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
And I might even have believed that, were it not for things like the Kermit Gosnell case, and now the whole "Drag Story Hours" rubbish. Are trans people disproportionately represented in modern drag is a theoretical discussion I have no idea about. But taking primary school children to drag shows for some nebulous notion of "allyship" or even worse is stupid. If anyone suggested "let's bring kids to strip clubs because sex work is real work" then they'd be pilloried. "Let's bring kids along to a club with signs like this in the background, but oh no it's nothing sexually-tinged at all, how dare you say that you bigot" is the new orthodoxy.
And then we get stupid, stupid clashes like antifa versus Proud Boys because both sides want an excuse for a rumble, and some UU church was dumb enough to provide them with one.
So "the left just wants trans people to be left alone" is not going to wash anymore.
Don't give anyone ideas.
If I left this comment at that, I'd have to mod myself for low effort, so to expand on this: among the things that have nudged me further into sympathy, if not allyship, with the right, is the speed at which drag shows - which have always been explicitly sexual events, the whole point is for men who like to dress as women and act slutty to parody and exaggerate female sexuality - have been relabeled as "family-friendly" events that are intended to show children the beautiful rainbow of diverse gender expressions. Like, no, everyone knew until a minute ago that a drag show was meant as adult entertainment. The fact that a child too young to know much about sexuality or "gender expression" just sees a man dressed as a lady clown doesn't mean it's children's entertainment.
And I'm not even addressing the sexuality of drag show participants, because it doesn't matter if all or most of them are gay or trans or just straight men who like dressing as women or whatever. Their costumes, their dances, their displays, are very obviously sexualized. I would have qualms but not severe apprehension about a drag queen just going into a library and reading books to children who only see a pretty clown, but apparently sometimes they do the routines too. This really pushes it over the edge for me: I definitely do not think most drag queens are groomers, but I do suspect some groomers are drag queens.
Right now, if you suggested taking children to a strip club to show them that sex work is real work, yeah, you'd get pilloried. But if I were, say, the leftist accelerationist groomer out of right-wing nightmares who actually wanted to achieve that, I do not have a hard time imagining a campaign to first introduce strippers and the concept of sex work as legitimate and worthy of respect, and then some strip club putting together a very cleaned-up version of a strip show (no actual exposure of R-rated parts) for kids, who just see a pretty lady dancing in swimwear, and that being pushed as a family-friendly event. (I mean, pole-dancing is now marketed as a kind of aerobic exercise and you can buy pole-dancing kits for children, ffs.)
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link