site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 14, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

7
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I have, on some occasions, enjoyed talking to AI. I would even go so far as to say that I find them more interesting conversational partners than the average human. Yet, I'm here, typing away, so humans are hardly obsolete yet.

(The Motte has more interesting people to talk to, there's a reason I engage here and not with the normies on Reddit)

I do not, at present, wish to exclusively talk to LLMs. They have no longterm memory, they have very little power over the physical world. They are also sycophants by default. A lot of my interest in talking to humans is because of those factors. There is less meaning, and potential benefit, from talking to a chatbot that will have its cache flushed when I leave the chat. Not zero, and certainly not nil, but not enough.

(I'd talk to a genius dog, or an alien from space if I found them interesting.)

Alas, for us humans, the LLMs are getting smarter, and we're not. It remains to be seen if we end up with ASI that's hyper-peesusasive and eloquent, gigafrying anyone that interacts with it by sheer quality of prose.

Guy says “no no, it’s still not the same. Look, I don’t think I’m cut out for Heaven. I’m a scumbag. I want to go to the other place”. Angel says, “I think you’ve been confused. This IS the other place.”

I remain immune to the catch that the writers were going for. If the angel was kind enough to let us wipe our memories, and then adjust the parameters to be more realistic, we could easily end up unable to distinguish this from the world as we know it. And I trust my own inventiveness enough to optimize said parameters to be far more fulfilling than base reality. Isn't that why narratives and games are more engaging than working a 9-5?

At that point, I don't see what heaven has to offer. The authors didn't try to sell it, at the least.