This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Yes, I think those people think that if everyone awakens to it being a lie, they'll be outraged to do what the denialists wanted all along, to kick out the Jews and to enact a Christian government and to either stop helping or actively destroy Israel. That's not what happens with other historical injustices. Did the youths, upon learning of the Trail of Tears, immediately start a wildly successful campaign to decolonize California? No, of course not, though it does seem like the anti-colonialists have been picking up some more steam lately on... something.
That makes me wonder: what is the future of Holocaust denial? And, what is the future of antisemitism in general? Does it die off in the new generation in America? I was surprised to find out recently that young people in China are actually okay with LGBTQ+ representation, and it's only the older generation that doesn't like gay people. I predict the same thing will happen with holocaust denial. I'd guess, if it's true that it only became mainstream in the 70s or the 80s or so, then it was specific to people who lived at that time, generally.
I am not convinced that Holocaust deniers want a Christian government or state. If nothing else, when I've talked to the Motte's own local Holocaust deniers, they tend to respond badly to professions of Christian faith - Christianity is perceived as just another head of the Jewish hydra, and believers are taken in by the racial mythology of a foreign group.
As a group of people, no, they don't want that. I'm talking about a very specific kind of Holocaust denier, the one that I have to deal with myself, and my example is the podcast I linked in the OP. That's two dudes called Corey J. Mahler and Treblewoe. Corey J. Mahler keeps getting banned off of Twitter, so my favorite posts about Adolf Hitler being the "last Christian king" are difficult to find. For how fringe they are, they still really like the LCMS, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, and keep getting into fights with its leaders or something because they don't want it to become corrupted.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link