site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 25, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

4
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Ah, but the catch is that most of the other sides of your bets (myself included) are probably likewise using motivated reasoning, not deliberate reasoning

It's not so much motivated reasoning as trusting your gut, and a big part of making your gut reliable is being able to tell the difference between what you think is true, and what you want to be true. While at this point I do have some ego invested in this, I think being right would be worse for me than being wrong. All I win if I'm right is an ego boost, but I lose one of the biggest social media platforms that single-handedly turned the socio-political tide away from a thousand years of darkness that I was foreseeing. If l'm wrong all I lose is some ego, but gain the ability to go on a moon fly-by cruise, or some crazy shit like this.

Now you may say that your decision is also not motivated, and you're just trusting your gut. That's fine, may the best gut win.

"Elon Time" has been a thing since at least Falcon Heavy

It's not about "Elon Time", it's about "Elon Hype". The problem with the Hyperloop wasn't the timing, it was that the idea was retarded. Same with the Cybertruck. The Boring Company might have been cool, if it actually delivered super-cheap tunnels, but I don't think they really outperformed anyone on the matter of costs. Tesla has a whole bunch of products in the pipeline now that were announced as revolutionary, just as the Cybertruck was, and are likely tu suffer a similar fate. A Robotaxi that needs a worker constantly holding his hand at an emergency shutdown trigger is no Robotaxi. This stuff is going to keep repeating with FSD, Cybercab, Semi, and Optimus.

Now maybe, just maybe, SpaceX still has the mojo, but I'm not counting on it.

Would you take $33 of mine to a charity of your choice vs $100 of yours to a charity of mine?

Yeah, that's my preferred way of dealing with it as well, for privacy reasons.

IMHO part of why SpaceX has been a success and e.g. Blue Origin (with more investment and a head-start) hasn't yet is that Musk's employees implicitly asked him to go to Mars.

That's an interesting take, I suppose it would explain why he keeps making these "Mars update" speeches. OTOH, I don't think there's a lot things that could demotivate you more, as working for someone who keeps promising insane achievements are just around the corner, while being the grunt charged with actually achieving them, and who knows exactly how far away you actually are from it. Ask me how I know.

At this point SpaceX is the investor, buying back $500M of their own shares last year (...) but right now he's still reportedly got the majority of voting shares,

That kinda makes me think that the buyback was about maintaining control, rather than any sort of investment (and strictly speaking, how could it be otherwise? They've spent money that could have gone on development, in order to buy paper).

and at the rate Starlink is growing (7 million subscribers now, up from 6 million in June and 5 million in Feb)

Isn't that underperforming relative to what was promised to investors? I think I heard the somewhere it should have been 20 million by now.

Yeah, that's my preferred way of dealing with it as well, for privacy reasons.

We've got a deal, then! See you in 2029 (other geopolitical events, the existence of TheMotte, etc, willing). Want to let me know a "default" charity pick for if and when you win, in case I can't track you down then?

Isn't that underperforming relative to what was promised to investors? I think I heard the somewhere it should have been 20 million by now.

In an estimate from ten years ago, when they were trying to round up a bunch of investment at a $12B valuation? Yeah, they're behind that schedule, but it's hardly a promise. Investors who want a promise 10 years out are currently happy to buy T-bills at 4.25%. Probably some investors gave up during the latest ($400B valuation) buyback, and have had to dry their tears with wads of $50s instead of $100s.

That said, I'm not a SpaceX investor (except indirectly via Alphabet) and don't plan to be; I'm just refuting the idea that they're dependent on continuing investment for continuing R&D funding. Their investment over their whole history appears to be less than their revenue in 2024 alone.

Want to let me know a "default" charity pick for if and when you win, in case I can't track you down then?

Right now it would either be Genspect or Themis Resource Fund, I think the latter should stay relevant even if, god willing, the whole trans mania finally blows over. If not, some kind of uncucked Free Software org, but I don't have specific recommendations here, since they tend to be subject to corporate and progressive takeovers.

You?

I'll say Helen Keller International; if for some reason I win but neither they nor I are around then go ahead and take your pick of Free Software orgs.