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naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   32029 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 9, 2023

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Bret Weinstein famously has a theory that since all our drugs are tested on the same cohort of lab mice, and those lab mice have been selected for an outrageous senescent capacity, the testing will broadly miss drugs that are just generally toxic. And this broad toxicity will manifest in the organs that have the most trouble healing, like the heart. So drugs that cause generalized cell damage have that damage manifest as heart failure.

I've never heard of 'senescent capacity' so it's difficult to know what you mean, but I'll assume you're referring to telomere length. It's trivially true that lab mice have longer telomeres than humans, but your broader point is false - if you're really curious, you can read the FDA guidance here. Studies generally march through mice/rats -> dogs -> non-human primates (usually macaques these days). You need data on PK (frequently using dogs as they have similar kinetics to humans) as well as convincing toxicity data in nonrodent species. Then you have small scale dose-escalation studies in healthy humans where toxicity is again evaluated prior to larger trials to test for efficacy & safety with more statistical power.

Fenphen was on the market from 1990 until 1997 before the evidence that it caused heart failure was overwhelming. Vioxx was another, released in 1999 and recalled in 2004.

I'm not as familiar with Fenphen, but for Vioxx Merck just...lied to people, it doesn't have anything to do with laboratory mice.

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