site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 9, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

14
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Induced demand

Is an ideologically loaded term. It makes no sense from an econonic point of view, its just demand. Unrealized demand is still demand. The price of roads are held constant so increasing supply will increase usage. But obviously there isnt infinite demand! A steady state will be reached.

It also just happens to be that the majority of the people who use that term are vehemently for getting rid of cars altogether for ideological reasons.

Moreover, only using America for sensemaking makes for a a shoddy model for all the systems around The World. America is stupid in unique ways, especially when it comes to Urban planning.

American highways clog up not because there are too many cars. Technically because there are too many cars for how poorly they are designed but, design them better then!

There are more than enough cities in Europe and Asia with vastly more density and no traffic. See Japan, Germany, Nertherlands, Korea...

And dont get me started on Americas single family housing nonsense.

Building more

Yes I do think building more will solve the price problem. Its quite literally the most fundamental theory of Economics. Supplies in many of these cities are artificially constrained.

Also why not just make more Global cities? Or cities of all kinds? Its not a law of the universe that the cool kids must only live in London and NYC. Its not like those places existed forever.

Yes for some people they need to live in THE city, they would rather live in NYC with rats and bed bugs just to be one of the cool kids. Thats fine. We just neednt structure society and policy or plans for the future around those people.

I live in Dubai, a relatively newly built city. Its one of the most global cities in The World. It supercedes all cities in America barring NYC in terms of amenities. Housing here is cheap, wayyyy cheaper than you would imagine. Reason? No nimby shit. Housing gets built in abundance. Its cheaper to live in the tallest building in the world in pure luxury, than certain 2 bedroom apartments in Manhattan or London. And no housing is not subsidized with oil money, its a relatively free market.

American highways clog up not because there are too many cars. Technically because there are too many cars for how poorly they are designed but, design them better then!

Is this because of highway design? Or because we give a license to anyone who can breathe, in stark contrast to Japan, Germany.....

In America, a car is seen as a defacto right. A huge portion of cars and people driving them shouldn't be on a road. Like anything else when it comes to freedom, things weirdly just kind of work out and aren't as bad as they should be. But the consequences of it are consistently bad traffic and additional crashes.