site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 9, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

14
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Of course, "we are too soft and nice smol beans and beating our enemies means we need to become hard and cruel (like the enemy!)" has been a part of the nationalist repertoire even before this war, expect moreso connected to narratives like "Us Finns (or Westerners in general) are too trusting and naive, we get exploited by lying fake asylum seekers and criminals and terrorists and foreign-aid-dependent dictators", precisely by politicians like Halla-aho. And there's a historical connection too, the Finnish far-right 30s explicitly repeated over and over again that Finns need to learn to hate Russians, writing books with titles like "The Only Way To Speak About A Russki Is While Grinding Your Teeth" and so-on - such tendencies were effectively then pushed deep to the recess by the war and the assorted beatings, but since this idea of deliberately hardening your own supposedly soft constituency seems to be culturally inbuilt in various nations, it perhaps only waited for an opportunity to get out again.

So in a way it's only too natural a narrative for him, especially now that it's harder than usual for other politicians to condemn him (not impossible, since they have done so). Indeed, he might find unexpected sympathy for harsh rhetoric even among liberals who would usually condemn him, "I do not usually share things by Halla-aho but this..." not being an unusual occurrence in Finnish liberal social media sphere. As such, one might say that it goes beyond just Russian/Ukrainian war question and is a part of a greater effort to make harsh, "realistic" us/them rhetoric acceptable - strike while the iron is hot, and all that.