This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
You would have been better off deleting your entire section of calling your ideological opponents hypocritical, evil coded Muslims while in the same breath handwaving any criticism of your allies who might have some extreme rhetoric of their own.
Just to be clear, I am pointing out the evil coded old-bearded-men in conservative Muslim society.
While their voting (if democracy, which it rarely is) constituents & global adherents of the religion bear some secondary blame for deferring to them as religious authorities, my choice of the bearded Muslim antagonist was deliberately meant to evoke a visceral negative reaction towards similarly antagonistic NIMBYs. Yes.
I meant that those criticisms were fair. But, while I was talkin about hypothetical NIMBYs who very much exist and dominate American society. The criticisms towards YIMBYs are pointed towards strawmen who either don't exist or are collectively mocked within the YIMBY community themselves.
For reference, look at the biggest public voices in YIMBY urbanism:
Strong Towns - The OG. A self-proclaimed conservative organization that advocates for multi-family middle-housing. They come at it from the POV of community building, economic sustainability and in some sense : family values. Their seminars are more math than activism given by a boring old professor.
City Beautiful - A professor in Coastal California, who takes a practical and holistic approach to finding win-no-lose outcomes in the NIMBY vs YIMBY war. His academic approach is the polar opposite of activism. His videos clearly show him caring for the preservation of urban architecture, local values and nature, while pushing for greater density. ('Oh the Urbanity' is similarly tame and reconciliatory in any of the issues they champion.)
RM Transit - The guy loves trains more than anyone in the world. But even he is critical of haphazardly adopted YIMBY policies and white-elephant transit projects that will come back to haunt the city in years to come. (ex: China's stubborn expansion of high speed rail in low-usage corridors)
Alan Fischer, Adam Something, (info-humor channels) - Even deep into meme territory, urbanism channels remain grounded and I have yet to see anything too objectionable being passed under the guise of 'haha, is a joke'.
Not just bikes , Climate town - These 2 the closest to activism channels, and are fairly tame as far as activism channels go. Like all activism channels, there is some snark here, but it makes sense given that both come from more jaded allied fields of Climate Change and Bike Infrastructure. The former worried about a future that will kill us all, and the latter worried about a present where roads definitely kill all cyclists.
Steve Hicks - On the urbanist architects side of things, Steve very much focuses on preserving aesthetics and quality-of-life while talking public spaces & urban design that leans YIMBY.
Popular YIMBYs being academics (and Canadian) more often than not, leads to them being fairly measured & polite in what they ask for. On the point of allies, YIMBYs often don't get along too well with their allies.
YIMBYs don't particularly care about social progressivism, especially vocally community oriented conservative ones like Strong Towns. YIMBYs advocate for strong ties with the executors of the law (police) which rubs the rest of the 'allies' the wrong way. Protection of share public spaces (transit, parks, side walks) is vital to YIMBYs, and they aren't onboard with the whole 'let the homeless spit fentanyl in my face' project that the some social progressive allies seem to be tolerating.
If you could point me to popular voices who represent the Strawman YIMBY, then I am all ears. But until then, I will continue to be asymmetrical in how I treat my enemies extremists vs the ones in my own fold.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link