This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Many women, even some who literally worked pro-bono for leftist NGOs, thought wokeness was nauseating crap but were too conflict avoidant to complain about it because they didn't want to make a scene. They would complain and bitch in private about the 'piety' of these people but passively uphold its hegemony in public, preface their private statements with 'you should never say this' and even look down on anyone who was actually honest in going against the consensus as a cringeworthy troublemaker. And there's an intense, seething hatred for transgender ideology too.
It's like they were hard-coded many years ago 'the left wing is good and the right sordid and smelly, good deeds include helping refugees, giving money to international charity and helping poor brown people have more political power'. They might recognize from experience that poor brown people are often stupid and can't understand the byzantine political process in a Western liberal democracy, giving them power is often an exercise in futility. Or they see that the power is taken by greedy intermediaries who pocket most of the loot. Or they know that non-Western cultures treat women poorly, importing them harms their own interests. But they then just try not to think about the incoherency between their knowledge of the world and beliefs about what should be done and lean towards various cope arguments that the media likes to put forward about why progressivism isn't working out so well.
It's like Ceausescu support withering the moment people stopped being afraid of the secret police, his support was based not on enthusiastic consent but grudging obedience. Light novel title: 'I can't believe the sex that wasn't selected for martial bravery turns out to be cowardly in their politics too!'
More options
Context Copy link