This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I think TLJ also made it rather clear that there was no cohesive vision for the new trilogy, or at least if JJ had one in mind RJ deliberately tossed it out.
Fair to make the point that there wasn't a fully cohesive vision for the OT when A New Hope released, but there was no point where it became utterly clear that there was no plan for the overall plot. Although the retcon turning Luke and Leia into siblings is obvious once you know about it.
I very clearly recall some remarks I made to a friend after watching TFA, basically praised that it fully recaptured the epic feel of Star Wars and had the possibility of some interesting arcs, particularly with Kylo Ren. I noted how Mary Sue-ish Rey was but of course if they had balls they could have her fall to the dark side or do something interesting with her parentage, so I was willing to wait it out.
Instead, she became a one-person tension-ruiner. Any moment she was onscreen you could be utterly certain no harm would befall her nor would she fail at her current task. The fact that she never even sustains a wound, much less lose an extremity or a limb like so many other characters, well, it became clear what the 'rules' surrounding her were.
This was also back when the "Darth Jar Jar" theory was hitting the public eye and thus people were hyping themselves up to expect some mindblowing twists in the story and likely the conversion of 'good' characters to the dark side and other actual developments/arcs.
And the new movies didn't just fail to live up to the hype the fans created for themselves, they utterly failed to even take advantage of the expectations set by TFA.
More options
Context Copy link