site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   2963 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for January 20, 2023

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

1
Top Bottom New Old Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

The wellbeing of Afghans?

Under the NATO-approved occupation govt, they had the institutionalized rape of young boys by the so-called Afghan military. This is one of the things the Taliban was trying to stamp out.

The documentary also contains footage of an American military advisor confronting the then-acting police chief on the abuse after a young boy is shot in the leg after trying to escape a police barracks. When the Marine suggests that the barracks be searched for children, and that any policeman found to be engaged in pedophilia be arrested and jailed, the high-ranking officer insists what occurs between the security forces and the boys is consensual, saying "[the boys] like being there and giving their asses at night". He went on to claim that this practice was historic and necessary, rhetorically asking: "If [my commanders] don't fuck the asses of those boys, what should they fuck? The pussies of their own grandmothers?"

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html

The justice system didn't work - that's one of the primary reasons people turned to the Taliban: https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1204481503838662656. Everyone in power was grossly corrupt. You had comically villainous characters like this in positions of influence: https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1204185809722589186

But I guess girls got to go to school and not have to wear the hijab for a few years, so it's all right. Some of the corruption managed to trickle down to the Afghan population.

And for this we threw at least USD 2 Trillion down the drain, along with thousands of troops! Was there nothing better we could do with that money and those lives? The opium production of Afghanistan increased enormously under our ultra-corrupt administration, so there's even more harm from our adventure. We damaged relations with Pakistan, we distracted ourselves from real foreign policy problems with this debacle. Al Qaeda simply moved elsewhere and continues on. Describing this war as 'pointless' is positively charitable!

The Hanania tweets back up both my specific points and my general argument that it was a gigantic tragicomedy. If General McNeil didn't know what he was supposed to do, how can we say that we have a better understanding of what the war was officially about?

Yes, the old govt sucks. And yet the Taliban are far worse. As they were when last they were in power Every day they were out of power was a good day for Afghans.

The Hanania tweets back up both my specific points and my general argument that it was a gigantic tragicomedy.

Whether it was a tragicomedy is not the issue we are discussing. You cited them for a very different claim.

If General McNeil didn't know what he was supposed to do, how can we say that we have a better understanding of what the war was officially about?

I don't understand what that is supposed to mean.

The ostensible freedoms Afghans had under the old government are irrelevant given how corrupt and incompetent it was. The Taliban at least have some degree of popular support and accountability. Their victory should lead to the development of a functioning political system, which opens up the possibility of reform in the future.

Quite frankly, political rights are not as important as institutionalized rape of children. Under the old regime they barely had any meaningful political rights anyway, everything was so corrupt. What is the point of voting on which brigand runs the country? And who cares if Freedom House's index of political rights falls 17 points from 27 to 10? Would you rather live in 'unfree' China or 'free' Ghana?

Furthermore, I cited two tweets showing primary sources where General McNeil says he was not given any clear strategy on what he was supposed to do. This is obviously relevant to my claim that the US did not know what its goals were. If they knew what they wanted in a specific concrete sense, somebody would have told McNeil. There would have been some kind of strategic plan to win the war. If you disagree, please explain rather than saying 'those Hanania tweets do not say what you think they do'.

The Freedom House rating includes both civil liberties and political rights, so I don't know why you are only talking about political rights. I find it a bit disingenuous.

As for General McNeil, the tweet quotes him as saying that he was given "little strategic guidance." That is a far cry from saying that he was unaware that the basic goal of the war was to support the current government, keep the Taliban out of power, etc. The idea that, because he said he got little strategic guidance, therefore "we [can't] say that we have a better understanding of what the war was officially about" is just silly.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats