site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 23, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I don't think it is. Look at what the divinity student quoted is doing; he's not studying divinity, he's doing Ye Olde Post-Modernist Deconstruction. They're not interested in theology as theology but as something they can mix in with mujerism, BIPOC rights, queering society, all the rest of the band.

Like the OP - he didn't want community so he sat on his own eating the lunch. But you can't get the warm fuzzies without community, and the reason the chanting etc. works is because it's done in community under a shared set of belief and values. Like the other characters in the Little Red Hen story who want the bread without putting in the work, if the Hare Krishna adopted his approach you'd have a bunch of individuals sloping in at different times to aimlessly hum off-tune as each did their own little song. That wouldn't give OP what he wanted and what he visited for in order to get.

I’m saying I don’t think he tipped that hand in his quote. You or I can say “gosh these folks sure are trying to uncouple their cake and eat it too,” and that doesn’t make us postmodernists.

I hate trying to defend this guy, because I looked up his current projects and they’re more or less caricatures of what you‘re talking about. I’m reasonably confident that he does, in fact, want syncretic vibes-based spirituality without religion. But as far as this conversation was going he was making a reasonable observation! There are a bunch of folks into decoupling; he’s one of them!

So I find your diatribe about despising his attitude to be a little out of place. The religious equivalent of Man Always Gets Little Rush Out Of Telling People John Lennon Beat Wife. Thanks, that’s nice, but can we stick to comparing albums?