This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I found out in a rather bizarre and mildly alarming way that income doesn't mean shit.
When I bought a house, they went over my finances with a colonoscopy camera. Credit score of course, but they wanted to know all my assets, all my debts, everything. When I cashed out a bunch of CDs to pay the down payment, they wanted to know why there was a $60 and change difference because of the 30 day interest penalty I paid for breaking them. I actually had zero debt, and enough assets to just buy the house outright. That was apparently enough for them to not even bother verifying my income. They just didn't give a fuck. I only know this because my company's accountant was shocked when she found out I bought a house, because she would have been the one to verify my income and they never contacted her.
The underwriter for the loan, Fannie Mae, also waived the appraisal and went "Fuck it, the house is worth whatever you say it's worth". This was a huge relief for us, even as it set off further red flags about the state of the mortgage industry, because if the appraisal didn't come up to the sale price, we'd be on the hook for the difference. Probably would have come out of reducing the 20% down we had.
This was circa 2021. I've heard some people tell me this story is impossible. My realtor had never see Fannie Mae waive an appraisal before. Apparently it was part of some sort of COVID measure if you had good enough credit.
Anyways, the moral of the story is, income means nothing. Everyone has an income, and yet most people struggle to service their debts.
More options
Context Copy link