This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Why use Llama 4 models? Even Behemoth is terrible nevermind Scout.
If you're going to be cheap, use Kimi, it is open-source but decent at writing.
"Behold, that corpulent, sour-bellied gargoyle squatting upon the federal throne—Adams, the human carbuncle whose jowls quiver with every belch of executive spite! This puffed-up, pudding-faced monarchist, bred on tainted Boston porridge and the stale crusts of Puritan hypocrisy, stalks the Republic in a wig too small for his swollen head, so that the greasy curls drip like icicles of pomatum down a brow forever furrowed with petty malice.
Mark the man: a tyrant in thread-bare dignity, a pimple on Providence’s nose, pickled in self-importance and brine of his own cant. His speeches belch forth like the crack of doom from a cracked kettle—each syllable a sour fizz of vinegar and vanity—while his piggish eyes glint with the dull, porcine joy of discovering fresh taxes to levy upon honest farmers. He is a walking thundercloud of gout and gloom, forever clutching his cane as though it were a sceptre, forever waddling after imaginary crowns like a fat spaniel sniffing for rotten sausages.
What is he, truly? A swollen tick engorged upon the public purse; a bilious monarchist stuffed into a republican coat that splits at every seam with the strain of his regal pretensions. Under his rule the eagle of liberty is plucked to a carrion crow, and the very air reeks with the sulphur of Alien decrees and Sedition fetters. He would nail your tongue to the pillory for a whispered jest, then sell your sons to French cannon for the price of a fresh periwig."
There is a notable shortage of racial hatred though and the sentences are a bit unwieldy. Grok 4 is too cringe to write well but it will add some racial hatred. Really I'd want Sonnet 4.5 for this kind of task but Sonnet refuses and generally suffers in 'meanness' unless its against people that Sonnet particularly dislikes. So it's a bit of a mess.
It's available via duck.ai's free tier and didn't refuse or glitch.
More options
Context Copy link
Well it is a lot less bland than the other models but it is also much much worse.
How is an eagle plucked into a crow? What is a crack of doom in a kettle? These sentences border on actual nonesense.
The "crack of doom" is a phrase from Macbeth, referring to the beginning of the apocalypse. It's not the crack in the kettle, but a crack of sound coming from the kettle; I'd assume the polysemy here is supposed to be poetic. IMHO it doesn't work well that way, or thematically ("doom" originally literally meant "judgement", and the Last Trump sound announcing it isn't supposed to be a bad thing for the folks who are ready to be judged) but it's definitely not nonsense; you could even argue that an apocalypse announced by a cracked witch's cauldron works as a deliberate mockery in the same sense as the "slouching towards Bethlehem" beast in Yeats.
I can't think of the defense for "eagle plucked into a crow", though. Eagles get attacked by crows defending their territory, and there's a couple popular allegories that come out of that; maybe the AI tried to mix that into "plucked bird as comically shameful defeat" symbolism (dating from the Mexican War to Foghorn Leghorn) and just mixed it badly?
It is certainly nonesense in the context of the rest of the sentence. A politicans speech signifies the end of the world, and it comes from a cracked kettle and it is alike to "vinegar and vanity".
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link