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Well, that would be flattering to Catholics, certainly, but yes, I see little difference in how closely they hew to reality, however much more erudite in theological matters the seminary graduates may be.
What I meant by "I was there" was not some metaphysical experience of the birth of wokeness, but that I actually witnessed the birth of both new atheism and rationalism, and I am saying they were intersecting Venn diagrams that became increasingly separated. Now if you want to argue that everything is "the toe of the same elephant" as poisonous fruits of the Enlightenment, well, okay, but you might as well say Nazis and Socialists and Libertarians and Evangelicals are all the same thing. Maybe that is what you actually believe.
Good grief, are you so bitter about everything that this kind of snark is your response? Fine, the priest can be the elephant’s shitter and your Sunday school teacher the ivory. I don’t care, whatever you want to call them. Come at me with better stuff than this.
Sure, but again, that is just your opinion that they are two meaningfully different movements. They’re both headed the same direction. They both use the same tools. What is your actual, factual evidence that they are meaningfully different? Because to me, they both look like atheistic, materialist, bond dissolving, utilitarian movements.
Seriously, what beliefs of rationalists can you point to that are not shared by New Atheists? They share being pro gay rights, pro feminism, pro trans, pro redistributionist, pro liberalism, they both don’t like the Church, they have HBDers, they have people openly worrying about and discussing AI alignment, on and on it goes.
The People’s Front of Judea can tell me they’re not the same thing as the Judean People’s Front, but they look the same to me.
I'm not bitter, dude, at least not in that way. You're very un-calm for someone accusing others of being excersized.
I think you should review where rationalists are at nowadays. You're lumping a lot of people with views from mildly positive to actively hostile towards every position you named. I could just as easily say that there is no meaningful difference between Catholics and Mormons. And indeed, to someone completely unfamiliar with Christianity this would be true. But of course to someone who actually takes the time to examine what they believe, it is obviously not true. They share lineage, obviously. Hence my description of "intersecting Venn diagrams that have moved apart."
At least we’re getting somewhere now. What would you say the core tenets of Rationalism actually are, then? Because to me they look the same as, really, generic materialist atheism, and certainly the new atheists.
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