This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I think the problem with the sequel trilogy is that it ignores the basic rule of collaborative storytelling: never say No, say Yes And.
At core, all fantasy is cooperative storytelling between the author and the audience. Even the most encyclopedic fantasy worlds can never be fully fleshed out, the author always needs the audience to imagine the rest of the world as existing, and much of the joy comes from that kind of space for imagination. Boys love having that space for imagination to expand. Middle-Earth offers you vast vistas hinting at a world where the audience can imagine many other things happenings. 40k is the logical conclusion of this method: the whole galaxy is nothing but Yes And: yes there are Orcs and yes there are Elves and yes there are evil robots and yes there are terrifying psychic chaos demons and yes there is a giant bio-engineered fleet of bugs that are more dangerous than all the rest put together and yes there are vaguely anime inflected communist aliens and yes there are genetically perfect superhumans who can dual wield artillery.
Star Wars at first did the same in the OT and PT. ANH sets things in motion, and with each movie things just get bigger. The PT takes every idea in the OT and expands it.
The sequels are all No. They are No, not at all. Every question a viewer might have from prior movies is answered with "No, not really." No, the Republic wasn't refounded, not really, and it wasn't any good anyway. No, the Jedi order wasn't reformed, not for long, and it fell apart again instantly. No, the Empire wasn't defeated, not really. Even down to no, Han and Leia didn't stay in love.
The whole worldview of the movie is fundamentally negative and hopeless. It leaves no room for the viewer to imagine, and it leaves no room for collaborative storytelling to keep the universe growing.
So I guess I agree with you in concept, but I don't think it's any great feat. Anyone could have made garbage.
More options
Context Copy link