This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Agree that TFA is reheated leftover memberberry slop. It hits the familiar notes one needs but did nothing new and reverting to "plucky rebels vs big bad evil" is a stupid move. Breaking out of the narrative confines of Empire Vs Rebel is what would allow new factions with new starships and uniforms to pop up and drive the toy empire that Star Wars really is. You need new cool outfits for heroes and bad guys both, and cool ships.
TLJ however is I would defend as good in concept but fucked entirely in execution. Wiping the slate clean is a Bold move, but it didn't actually wipe it clean enough and was so badly done Disney scrambled for a recovery in the memberberry double-down of TROS. All of that means the Star Wars aesthetic is suck with "dull desert robes" or "stormtrooper". No one is cosplaying Admiral Holdo, but thats also because Rian Johnson apparently told his costume director to make her (and Rose) neither sexy nor intimidating but still feminine which is a fucking insane combo for someone meant to be a goddamn military leader. Not even a fucking collar to cover up her expose nape, where the fuck do you put rank pins on that grandma ballgown.
Abrams made a hack's movie but you're just never convince me that it isn't malpractice to throw out everything that even looked like set up in the second part of a trilogy when you had no say in how the third part would go.
This is a mistake that happened all over the EU. And in Doctor Who, where people grew up so enamored with their vision of what DW is that they squeezed it in instead of accepting that the canon and fandom was where it was. Sorry, you're in a relay race, you don't get to have it your way.
Johnson has to eat most of the blame. Or rather, Kennedy has to get it for allowing Johnson to do this.
Conceptually I think Kateleen Kennedy needed to escape the shadow of George Lucas's vision of Star Wars in order to keep the franchise bloom. Disneys purchase of Avengers hit an annual franchise value of about 2025USD3b/y (taking box office receipts and doubling it to include merch and ancillaries) 3 years after purchasing Marvel Studios and kept that hot streak going for 6 years before jizzsploding a 6bn double whammy with the Avengers finale. Lucasfilm stormed out the gate with 3bn right when TFA was purchased, but had a long tail of legacy stuff holding back development - canon itself was a drag. Or rather the sandbox kept retreating back to Jedi and Rebels. Abrams leaned too far into memberberries, Johnson composted the memberberries but also salted the earth, and Kennedy had no idea who was doing what.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link