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PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   24127 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 1, 2025

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Terrorists are not covered by Geneva conventions.

And even if people want to argue over the definition of terrorist, "non-uniformed combatants" in general are not covered by the Geneva Conventions (or most of the laws of war in general). Non-uniformed combatants are generally punished when found via... summary execution. Whether or not alleged drug dealers allegedly bringing drugs to the US (allegedly on behalf of the Venezuelan government) count as non-uniformed combatants is a whole different question though.

is a whole different question though.

And one with a well-known answer. Merchant seamen are civilians, even if they are transporting contraband. Hence the theory that the drugs and not the people were the legally relevant target - if the drug war was a real war, the drugs would be a legitimate military target and the sailors would be acceptable collateral damage but not a military target in their own right.

Which is probably part of why the US is claiming they are military irregulars operating under the command of the Venezuelan government: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy8j4ye5x0mo

Whether or not that claim is true is, again, an entirely different matter. But if they are then they are both non-uniformed and operating flagless vessels in international waters, which means the amount of protection they have against pretty much any action another state chooses to take is effectively zero.

But if they are then they are both non-uniformed and operating flagless vessels in international waters,

There is no requirement for merchant seamen to wear uniforms, or for merchant ships to fly their flags in international waters (unless asked to by a warship of any nationality). For the crews of the drug boats to be unlawful combatants, they have to be fighting out of uniform. Otherwise "they are members of TdA and therefore Venezuelan irregulars" (which I agree is probably the Trump admin's position) would make them combatants currently not fighting - which means the people (but not the boat) would be valid military targets, but subject to GC protections (including against continued attack after being shipwrecked)*

The legal position that makes the boat a military target is that the drug war is a real war which triggers Article 2 war powers and the international law of armed conflict, and that shipping drugs is a belligerent act. And indeed that shipping drugs from Venezuela to Trinidad is a belligerent act against the United States based on the ultimate destination of the drugs. The only people who have historically taken that position as regards shipments of weapons were supporters of unrestricted submarine warfare in WW1 and WW2.

* The distinction the Geneva Conventions make between combatants not currently fighting and combatants rendered hors-de-combat (sick, wounded, surrendered, shipwrecked), while clear as a matter of the current international law in force, doesn't quite make sense in the context of off-battlefield drone strikes. The fact that you can legally (subject to normal considerations about proportionality of collateral damage) drone-kill an off-duty enemy soldier in his bed at home, but not in his hospital bed, doesn't really serve a logical purpose. The fact that you can legally drone-sink a civilian boat (again subject to proportionality) in order to kill the off-duty enemy combatant passengers, but not finish them off once they are in the water, is producing mildly absurd results in the instant case.

There is no requirement for merchant seamen to wear uniforms, or for merchant ships to fly their flags in international waters

The latter part is not strictly true.

Per both the Comité Maritime International's Lex Meritima (of which the US is a signatory), and the UN Convention on Laws of the Sea (of which the US is not a signatory), vessels operating in international waters are required to display their name and home port/nation of origin at all times if they wish to claim protection under said conventions.

Yes - the claim that the vessels are "unflagged" being made by supporters of the "effectively pirates, so okay to dronekill" line of reasoning seems to me to be conflating two ideas:

  1. The vessels were not displaying an ensign, visible from a distance, while making the crossing from Venezuela to Trinidad - they don't have to.
  2. The vessels did not comply with the registration formalities in their home country - which wouldn't make then legally pirates per se (because the drug war isn't a real war and drug smuggling isn't fighting) but would bolster the case that they were unlawful combatants.

The drone strike was carried out from a distance where the drone operator wouldn't have known whether the boats in question where displaying their name and port of registry - I don't know the details of the regs but when I was a sailor I did know that if you could read the name on a big ship you were too close. I would be very surprised if the US authorities knew or cared whether the boats in question were properly registered in Venezuela.

The vessels were not displaying an ensign, visible from a distance, while making the crossing from Venezuela to Trinidad - they don't have to.

Pretty much every report I've read has placed the boat in international waters which means that they would have been well north of Trinidad and Tobago.

The drone strike was carried out from a distance where the drone operator wouldn't have known whether the boats in question where displaying their name and port of registry

The drone strike was allegedly carried out with a hellfire missile which is a laser guided (IE line of sight) weapon. If they were close enough to score a hit, they were close enough to tell whether the boat was displaying a name and a flag even if they couldn't necessarily read it.

In any case, one of the core differences between "Admiralty Law" and conventional Anglo judicial tradition is that there is no presumption of innocence. Anyone in international waters is presumed to be operating outside the law unless they take explicit steps to remain within the law.

If the boat was in international waters, and I will concede that this is a big "IF", it was by default a legitimate target unless evidence is provided to the contrary.

Second Geneva Convention of 1949 art. 3:

In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:

(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed 'hors de combat' by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.

Commentary ¶ 489 (applying to the first-quoted paragraph):

The object and purpose of common Article 3 supports its applicability in non-international armed conflict reaching beyond the territory of one State. Given that its aim is to provide persons not or no longer actively participating in hostilities with certain minimum protections during intense armed confrontations between States and non-State armed groups or between such groups, it is logical that those same protections would apply when such violence spans the territory of more than one State.

Commentary ¶¶ 893–896 (applying to the last-quoted paragraph):

This provision confirms that, while humanitarian law provides for equal rights and obligations of the Parties to the conflict in the treatment of people in their power, it does not confer legitimacy on non-State armed groups that are Parties to a conflict.

Furthermore, it serves to underline that, as international humanitarian law applies based on the facts, regardless of whether a State qualifies the members of a non-State armed group as ‘terrorists’ or its actions as ‘terrorism’, humanitarian law applies if and when the conditions for its applicability are met.

The denial that groups that a State has labelled as ‘terrorist’ may be a Party to a non-international armed conflict within the meaning of humanitarian law carries the risk that the non-State armed group loses an incentive to abide by that body of law. This in turn reduces the ability of humanitarian law to serve its protective purpose. Humanitarian law seeks to protect civilians and all those who are not directly participating in hostilities; it does this in part by obliging Parties to distinguish between civilians and civilian objects and military objectives.

Nothing since the introduction of common Article 3 in 1949 has altered the fact that the applicability of humanitarian law to situations of non-international armed conflicts does not affect the legal status or enhance the legitimacy of non-State armed groups. This remains as essential today as it was at that time, as any other interpretation will almost inevitably lead States to deny the applicability of common Article 3 and thereby undermine its humanitarian objective.

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