This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The Apartment is a banger - excellent taste, zoink. Either you post an analysis by Christmas or I will.
Yes, my OP was thin. I was too blinded by anger and disgust towards Diane Keaton to engage further with the subject matter. You're correct that they are cruel to SJP's character for minor transgressions - but they're also cruel to her for perceived transgressions. This is the interesting Culture War aspect to me. It's a visual depiction of microagressions vs. actual aggression made by people who, I suspect, really did empathize with the family.
If you watch the film closely from the beginning, you'll see that SJP does not have to do anything to be mistreated. They hate her because of who she is. Then they impute motives that did not exist towards actions that were not aimed at them to justify their tribal, insular, elitist behavior. They give this poor woman shit because she uses different kinds of luggage. They've already done more than enough to justify a multi-generational blood feud before they get to the freak out because she suggests that things which cause extra difficulties in life - like being gay in the early 2000s or literally fucking handicapped because you're deaf and Diane Keaton has to throw things at you to get your attention because you are missing a default human sense, things which are disabling are actually bad in some aspects of life you dumb fucks - are things that perhaps should be avoided.
At no point did she denigrate someone for being gay or deaf. At no point did she imply that the gay/deaf people at the table were not worthy of love. But the family reacts based on what they think SJP is saying and are then incapable of hearing her actual words.
They let her make an entire dish with mushrooms and at no point mention that someone in the house has a deadly allergy. This is the allergy sensitivity faction getting their 5 minutes. How dare she not magically divine that he has allergies? The person with the allergy or their family has no obligation to inform others of this important fact. It's everyone else's responsibility to protect the poor baby.
It's implied that she's mocking the deaf man or calling him retarded by speaking slowly and clearly. This is exactly what you're supposed to do to facilitate lip reading. She does not know his fluency at it and she's trying to help him. The framing of the shot lets you know that we're supposed to think SJP is the asshole here.
ETA: There's also a strong Longhouse vibe running throughout. The atrocious behavior towards SJP and the resulting heavenly retribution could have been avoided if Coach wasn't such a pussy in this movie.
However - I think the juicier culture war angles are actually closer to The Apartment than the HR Ladies Home Journal. SJP's boyfriend and his brother are walking manifestations of actual toxic masculinity. They are actual predators who engage in predatory behavior. But the film can't see what it is literally putting on the screen because it thinks they're good people.
The Brother:
The Boyfriend:
And in TFS 2 it's revealed that after he broke up with Younger Sister, Dad swooped in and now she's his step-mom. Awkward! But that just makes for the comedy, right? She's slept with three out of the four Stone men, and is maybe making googly eyes at the gay son, ha ha only joking! Nah, she's having an affair with Amy's Brad, not with Thad, that's where the misunderstanding came in: someone overheard a phone call but it was muffled and they misheard "Brad" for "Thad".
But the affair is okay, they're all bohemian, it's chill, and anyway Amy is exploring the possibility she might be bi so while Brad is getting it on with step-mom-in-law, she's having late night artistic discussions with Original Character who then ends up being third, slightly trashier, girlfriend for Everett.
The Family Stone: all one big happy quasi-incestuous family!
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link